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Wireless Networks Thread, Wireless N deployment in Technical; We are looking at deploying a wireless N network this summer (not yet made decisions as to which manufacturer, but ...
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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Wireless N deployment

    We are looking at deploying a wireless N network this summer (not yet made decisions as to which manufacturer, but have got enough suppliers now), and one thing that has come up is the wired infrastructure.

    PoE is not a big issue, as it can be dealt with by installing normal plugs rather than deploying expensive 1Gb PoE switches, but the need for Gbit switch ports is an issue.

    We have a HP 2650 network across the school, so roughly 8 - 10 AP's need gigabit ports to connect to, with there only being 3 ports available (3 different switches, in 3 different locations).

    So, what I need is recommendations for small gigabit switches to plug into these spare ports. Yes it'll add a bottleneck, but it won't be as big a bottleneck as 100mbit ports would be (and would be changed in a few years when we upgrade the network to gigabit to the client).

    We have a VLAN'd network too...

    Any ideas?

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Would chaining one of these on to each of the 3 ports do the trick?

    Insight UK - HP ProCurve Switch 2708 - Switch - 8 ports - EN,... - J4898A#ACC

    Or one of these:

    http://uk.insight.com/apps/productpr..._id=HPNAJ9029A
    Last edited by localzuk; 8th July 2009 at 12:07 PM.

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    Michael's Avatar
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    I would recommend the HP 6108 which is an 8 port managed switch, and would essentially be the core of your network with everything plugged into it (by the sounds of things). The HP 2708 is unmanaged and I believe has now been dropped from production (for quite sometime), so there are only a few dotted about from suppliers.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    I would recommend the HP 6108 which is an 8 port managed switch, and would essentially be the core of your network with everything plugged into it (by the sounds of things). The HP 2708 is unmanaged and I believe has now been dropped from production (for quite sometime), so there are only a few dotted about from suppliers.
    I already have a 5406zl which is my core, but the site is multiple buildings. All switches at the moment come back to core via fibre, but we have no spare fibre capacity at these locations and no funds to add any.

    The other switch I linked, the 1800-8G is a web managed switch though, which means it'd be able to handle the VLAN issue etc...

    Plus... it costs 100 compared to 1000...

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    Michael's Avatar
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    At least the HP 6108 has dual ports if you need fibre in future. The other two switches are a lot cheaper because they're unmanaged or probably don't have all features of more expensive switches. Don't do things on the cheap, it'll bite you

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    At least the HP 6108 has dual ports if you need fibre in future. The other two switches are a lot cheaper because they're unmanaged or probably don't have all features of more expensive switches. Don't do things on the cheap, it'll bite you
    3000 for 3 switches is not in the budget...

    I've now looked at the 1800-24G, which has dual ports too (needed in 2 places due to the way things are set up). Note that the only things that will *ever* be plugged into these will be the wireless AP's.

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    For non-poe 1gb switches, you could try the 3COM 3CR17661-91 4200G 24 Port.
    20x 1Gb
    4x SFP
    1x 10Gb Module (option)

    3COM has a summer sizzler promotion on recently (may be extended with certain 3COM partners) and could be had for approx 450.

    There's also a 12 port version. (as well as POE versions) not got prices / part # to hand
    Last edited by MYK-IT; 11th July 2009 at 12:51 AM.

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    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    3000 for 3 switches is not in the budget...

    I've now looked at the 1800-24G, which has dual ports too (needed in 2 places due to the way things are set up). Note that the only things that will *ever* be plugged into these will be the wireless AP's.
    I Bet if you dropped simon or Dan ( WDAN or w/e his id is on here ) - or both of them a pm with your requirements they would be able to find something with decent features at a decent price.

    Give them your max price for the 3 switches with what sort of functionality you are after they should be able to come up with something.

    Found these 2 but obviously in terms of price and functionality I am not sure

    HP ProCurve 1800-24G 24 port Smart Gigabit Switch - Misco.co.uk

    HP ProCurve Switch 2510G-24 24 port Gigabit Switch - Misco.co.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by mac_shinobi View Post
    I Bet if you dropped simon or Dan ( WDAN or w/e his id is on here ) - or both of them a pm with your requirements they would be able to find something with decent features at a decent price.

    Give them your max price for the 3 switches with what sort of functionality you are after they should be able to come up with something.

    Found these 2 but obviously in terms of price and functionality I am not sure

    HP ProCurve 1800-24G 24 port Smart Gigabit Switch - Misco.co.uk

    HP ProCurve Switch 2510G-24 24 port Gigabit Switch - Misco.co.uk
    the only problem with the 1800 is its fairly limited management wise i just installed the 8 port version in a school and it dosent seem to do igmp or spanning tree for instance (or if it does they are oddly named or well hidden)

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    the only problem with the 1800 is its fairly limited management wise i just installed the 8 port version in a school and it dosent seem to do igmp or spanning tree for instance (or if it does they are oddly named or well hidden)
    True, but for me that isn't an issue. The only things that would be plugged in to these switches would be the wireless AP's - nothing else. So, the need for STP is low. And IGMP isn't a need we've had either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    True, but for me that isn't an issue. The only things that would be plugged in to these switches would be the wireless AP's - nothing else. So, the need for STP is low. And IGMP isn't a need we've had either.
    Have read on wikipedia and done some searching but was wondering what exactly would IGMP be used for on a network ( in plain english )

    Only thing I have found is for grouping different internet protocols and is meant to help with video streaming / gaming ( I think ) and a mention of used by routers / firewalls

    Any advances ?

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mac_shinobi View Post
    Have read on wikipedia and done some searching but was wondering what exactly would IGMP be used for on a network ( in plain english )

    Only thing I have found is for grouping different internet protocols and is meant to help with video streaming / gaming ( I think ) and a mention of used by routers / firewalls

    Any advances ?
    It is used by clients to register an interest in Multicast services (which are grouped using the IGMP protocol).

    My guess would be it might be used for Ghosting (if you use multicast anyway).

    But we don't use Multicast - we can't afford the license for our HP 5406zl switch to utilise Multicast across vlans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    It is used by clients to register an interest in Multicast services (which are grouped using the IGMP protocol).

    My guess would be it might be used for Ghosting (if you use multicast anyway).

    But we don't use Multicast - we can't afford the license for our HP 5406zl switch to utilise Multicast across vlans.
    yup because of the storm control the lea set on the sisko routers schools get every time i ghost it takes down the internet (and in 1 school they have a lea provided wifi at it takes that out as well) igmp reduces the occurrences of that and saves me traipsing to the cab or phoning rent a Muppet who takes ages telling you why it went down and not to do it again

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    1Gb Switch needed for Wireless N

    I wouldn't be confident that 802.11n would have a throughput to match the 100 BaseTX (100Mbit Ethernet). With 100Mbit Ethernet you'll probably manage to get an effective throughput of 70-80% of the quoted bandwidth (i.e. 70-80Mbit). My experience of wireless is more like 50%, so 802.11n would have to be operating at a 160Mbit theoretical to outperform a 100Mbit port and cause a bottlekneck on the port. And don't forget the backplane of a 100Mbit Switch is much more than 100Mbit, so a bottlekneck there is unlikely. However, it would certainly be advisable to have at least one 1Gb port to link the Switch to other Switches (such as the Switches that have the servers connected to them), as you could end up with a bottleneck there if you connect it to the other switches on 100Mbit.

    Has anyone see any throughput tests of 802.11n, which could confirm or refute this proposition?m I.e. are throughputs of over 80Mbit achievable?

    Thanks, Bruce.

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    eean's Avatar
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    I did a test to a cheepo Belkin router from a macbook (running windows). Was through cardboard wall but within 4m of the router. Throughput was 30MBit. Still 2-3x faster than g.

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