Wireless Networks Thread, What wireless AP? in Technical; I've just (about 10 mins ago!) got a quote for a managed system for a small school, using a netgear ...
26th February 2009, 03:15 PM #16
I've just (about 10 mins ago!) got a quote for a managed system for a small school, using a netgear controller. The controller is £1165, and each of the access points are £86 - these are dual band a/g points, if you just want g they are a little cheaper. The controller supports up to 16 points, and has 8 poe sockets.
If you dont want to go down the managed solution, i've found the netgear wg302's to be very good, supporting 15 - 20 laptops on 1 point.
IDG Tech News
26th February 2009, 03:20 PM #17
My Ruckus kit landed yesterday, and I'm now in love
26th February 2009, 03:28 PM #18
I trialed it before half term . . just cant spend any money until April..
Originally Posted by Dos_Box
It just works! 100%
I think it'll make a huge difference to the perception of ICT amoung the teaching staff.
26th February 2009, 03:37 PM #19
Does the Ruckus kit require a physical cable connection to each access point, or does it work over ip? Roughly what sort of cost is it?
26th February 2009, 03:53 PM #20
Its a centrally managed system. You simply plug in the receivers into your LAN and the Zone Director box picks them up and configures them automatically. For pricing you'd have to ask Net-Ctrl as they arranged for EduGeek to have our very own setup to rave about (which isn't hard to do as it's very rave-able). All your clients see is one network which they can roam around should they wish. There are lots of funky features such as AD authentication instead of WEP keys etc, the ability to have 'Guest' access where visitors can have internet access but not be able to see any of your network (this works straight from the box BTW). I think the system we were given, a Zone Director 1000 and 2 Zone Flex receivers\transmitters comes to about £800-ish. After that you simply add more Zone Flex units to expand your network. Obviously there is a limit (which I can't remember right now) to the amount of transmitters you can add per box, but they cover a hell of an area!
2 Thanks to Dos_Box:
CHR1S (26th February 2009), steveg (26th February 2009)
26th February 2009, 04:04 PM #21
I must say, the more I look into this the more a managed solution seems the better route. Especially with the costs that people are telling me.
26th February 2009, 05:44 PM #22
I think that's a special price for you
I think the system we were given, a Zone Director 1000 and 2 Zone Flex receivers\transmitters comes to about £800-ish.
I think to expect something twice the price for us normal people
26th February 2009, 06:06 PM #23
Must confess we have given the kit to Chris and Edugeek as a good will gesture due to all your support, this way you can benefit at all your events with Wifi.
Originally Posted by SimpleSi
The costs he has quoted are a little low but still it is a cost effective solution and well within most budgets please call me or email ref prices and I will be happy to share them with you.
26th February 2009, 08:18 PM #24
Another happy Ruckus person here, just awaiting the knodd from above to replace the non-managed wifi with a Ruckus one (so fingers crossed for April!!) The kit is out of this world and very much worth it and if you think its just a few members raving about it talk to Mark and get him to send you some on eval and see for yourself!
26th February 2009, 08:23 PM #25
- Rep Power
Why wifi does not support high user densities and how to fix it.
WiFi uses a collision mechanism to control access to "the air" (csma/cd)
This means that devices must first listen to the air, they may transmit if they hear that no one else is transmitting, they must then listen to see if any other device decided to transmit at the same time, and if they did then a collision has occurred, the packets become corrupt and are wasted.The devices must retransmit the packets.
WIth few devices there are few collisions and few wasted packets.
As you get more devices on an AP there are exponentially more collisions, and exponentially more wasted bandwidth.
A wi-fi network with 10 devices on an AP may be 5% efficient.
In a class environment the teacher says "log-in" this is a command for all devices to transmit at once, the result is a storm of collisions, retransmissions, more collisions.
Last edited by mark; 26th February 2009 at 09:10 PM.
Reason: PM sent re edugeek sponsorhip
26th February 2009, 08:42 PM #26
we use apple extremes we needed 2 for a suite of 20 q1's once there up and running no issues.
26th February 2009, 10:48 PM #27
Just thought I would add a really interesting section from one of the technical data sheets that Ruckus have to eliminate the worry of dense environments etc.
Takes a little reading but sums it up really well.
In the adaptive model, co-channel interference is limited because by design adjacent cells are nearly always on different channels. When fewer channels are available, access points on the same channel must be spaced closer, and co-channel interference becomes significant. While directional antennas and other techniques can be used to minimize the effect, co-channel interference limits transmission capacity and quality in many of today’s Wi-Fi networks.
The mechanism whereby transmissions are inhibited in Wi-Fi is called carrier sense multiple access with collision avoidance for the media access control layer (CSMA/CA MAC). When a client or access point is about to transmit, it first checks the medium to see if any other transmissions are on the air.
Even when such transmissions are detected from a distant cell on the same RF channel, if they can be successfully decoded they will inhibit the pending transmission. Similarly, if a device begins to transmit and senses another simultaneous frame on the air, it will cease transmission and enter a backoff mode. The effect is that transmissions in nearby cells on the same RF channel can prevent local devices from transmitting, even when the intended recipient of the transmission might not be in an area of interference.
Purveyors of single-channel architectures often claim that their WLANs eliminate co-channel interference, an extraordinary contention given that adjacent access points and clients are by definition on the same channel. One would expect that co-channel interference would be much more significant in the single-channel than the adaptive model.
The fact is that single-channel WLANs are indeed affected by co-channel interference in the same manner as the adaptive WLANs, but to a much more significant degree. Co-channel interference becomes one of the most significant challenges to performance in the single-channel architecture. when a particular access point or client transmits, all others within its interference zone are inhibited as they sense the transmission, or forced to retransmit as the co-channel interference prevents them decoding the desired signal. Essentially single cell vendors often talk about the controller arbitrating the bandwidth so there is no co-channle interference…essentially sharing the bandwidth of many APs with the performance of a single 20mhz channel which limits performance given the UK schools are often multi floors and as many as 6-9 APs can see each other, that lends to a very expensive cost per mb as they all wait for a share of the single channel
What adaptive cell coupled with adaptive RF techniques such as beamforming and interference mitigation cater for total RF management, taking high density deployments that step further, so that instead of everyone being able to turn on their laptops in one classroom (aka single cell) we enable the whole school to turn on their laptops without having to share bandwidth amongst radios on the same channel.
5th March 2009, 10:13 AM #28
- Rep Power
If you are worried about coverage and excellent logon speeds with wifi, you need to get Ruckus!
Its amazing and knocks socks of HP, DLINK and even Cisco!
Its great value!
We have it here!
Thanks to adurrant from:
MarkPower (30th March 2010)
5th March 2009, 12:43 PM #29
- Rep Power
i recently fitted a wifi solution for 2 large 5 star hotel.
13 APs in total (per hotel) so 26 all together
i used netgear prosafe WG102s as they were cheap, gave very good range and also use PoE (i needed this because of where we were installing the aps!)
ALL APs had the same ssid, overlapping APs were on different channels, all had the same security.
This gave a roaming effect, you can walk the entire distance of the hotel now without noticing you are connecting to different APs.
Also the netgear has autocell which detects other aps and makes sure the channels do not interfere with one another, it will auto switch if they do
we fitted them around 6 months ago using our own freeBSD based captive portal software (this is the payment and voucher system), feedback from the hotels has been 100%, they have had conferences with over 70 people connecting at any one time and have reported no problems or slow down.
i have to admit when i fitted them i didnt think they would be man enough for anythign like that but are far exceeding any expectations i had..!
hope this helps
5th March 2009, 08:24 PM #30
Well I have classes of 32 laptops running fine from 2 Aruba 65 access points (running off the Aruba 800 controller) and they are the equivalent to the NETGEAR WFS709TP and 2 duel band APs, it works like a dream!
Originally Posted by SimpleSi
I also have a 6th form study centre with 50 laptops running from 3 Aruba 65s
The only downfall that I can see with the Netgear system compared to the Aruba is that there is a limit to the number of access points because the Netgear system is only based around the older Aruba 800 controller technology which does have its limitations to the number of APS even when you reach the maximum number of controllers and does not and will not support 802.11n access points.
Because I have got the Aruba version, I’m ok because I just put in a Aruba 3000 series controller and I am testing a signal 802.11n access points on a new set of 30 laptops and it looks to be working fine.
If you have a small site the Netgear system should work fine when correctly setup, but for larger sits it’s not up for the job. This is why i went down the Aruba route.
I just wish the two (so closely) related systems would work together then I could go for the cheaper Netgear Access points.
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