Poll: Have you thought about IP6 implementation?

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Wireless Networks Thread, Have you thought about IPv6 implementation? in Technical; I had an interesting question today from one of the places that I work at, they wanted to know if ...
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    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Have you thought about IPv6 implementation?

    I had an interesting question today from one of the places that I work at, they wanted to know if we could use IPv6. The first thing I did was ask them were they had even heard of it, Vista includes it in its networking components which they had stumbled across. Anyway it raised an interesting question.

    Has anyone here thought about or actually implemented IPv6 networking in their networks?
    Last edited by SYNACK; 1st August 2008 at 03:40 PM.

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    FN-GM's Avatar
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    No, there is simply no need for it. Plus can XP support it?

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    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN-Greatermanchester View Post
    No, there is simply no need for it. Plus can XP support it?
    Yes XP will support it but you must manually add it or add it at install time as it is not installed by default.
    http://www.microsoft.com/technet/net...6/ipv6faq.mspx

    Eventually depending on which political party gets in over here we may be linked into the academic backbone which will be running IPv6 so it may become necessary in a few years for us.

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    Domino's Avatar
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    We've had it cause problems with exchange 2007 and server 2008, so have manually removed it from both those systems.

    a quick google will highlight what I mean

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    Quote Originally Posted by FN-Greatermanchester View Post
    No, there is simply no need for it. Plus can XP support it?
    I think that ought to be "I have no need for it" rather than "there is no need for it" :-)

    There obviously is a need - even with NAT it's getting more difficult to get enough IPs for all the devices which need them - but most people are managing without.

    Reallocating existing (and perhaps underused) IPs will help (10 years ago, my college had over 1500 public IP addresses (195.194.12.1 - 195.194.17.255 in case anyone is interested :-)) but we were asked to give back all but the first 32 so they could be allocated to other colleges.

    I'd guess that at some point it ought to be possible to allocate public V6 IP addresses to every device which can use one but I'm not rushing to implement it (with only 5 days to go I'm not rushing to change anything!)

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    Michael's Avatar
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    It's ISP and hosting providers that should lead the way. I know that XP/2003/Vista and 2008 support IPv6, but what happens with older OS like Windows 98 or 2000? I suppose the protocol could be written for these OS too?

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    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    It's ISP and hosting providers that should lead the way. I know that XP/2003/Vista and 2008 support IPv6, but what happens with older OS like Windows 98 or 2000? I suppose the protocol could be written for these OS too?
    You are right that the providers should take the lead but when this happens it may mean a drastic reshuffle of the way school networks function. IPv6 is being implemented in most of the new research and education networks at the moment, the EU looks to be getting involved too (European Union Plans Widespread IPv6 Deployment by 2010 | NetworkWorld.com Community)

    There are no Microsoft plans to add support for IPv6 to anything Windows 2000 or below, I guess a third party could write a TCP/IP stack that those OSs could use but I doubt that any major players will bother as by the time it has become very widespread even the larger companies will have ditched Windows 2000.

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    Michael's Avatar
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    It's got me thinking - how many routers out there actually support IPv6? Either natively or using IPv6 to IPv4 tunnelling?

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Internally? There is zero need in a school. For example, our school has 2 public IP addresses, and >300 devices that have private IP addresses which connect out via NAT.

    IPv6 is only of any use on the internet, and even then, I still can't see the need for it - people are just using their IP allocations poorly. There are over 4 billion addresses in IPv4 address space, and there are most certainly not that many devices on the internet!

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    IPv6 is only of any use on the internet, and even then, I still can't see the need for it - people are just using their IP allocations poorly. There are over 4 billion addresses in IPv4 address space, and there are most certainly not that many devices on the internet!
    I guess the real benefits from using it on the internet and internally is the fact that a lot of things that were hard become easy. All of the problems with overlapping private ip ranges that interfere with VPNs simply go away. All of the troublesome overhead from trying to overload a single ip address with several hundred users traffic is negated and it allows different types of ip protocols to be supported without the need for application filters to repackage it corectly for NAT.

    It also cleans up the publishing of resources as traffic can be directed right to the host involved not requireing url and ip rewriting to publish it if it is internal.

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    Michael's Avatar
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    I'm not an IPv4 / IPv6 expert, but clearly IPv6 has been created to remove any potential problems in the future.

    According to Google, there are 6,602,224,175 people in the world. So there are more people than there are IP addresses. According to Wikipedia, IPv6 supports ten billion, billion, billion times as many addresses as IPv4 supported.

    I agree that a lot of networks have private addresses and connect via NAT, but clearly it's not enough. IPv6 will be the norm eventually.

    Going off the subject a bit, but look at the state of television in the UK. You have analogue, digital terrestrial and digital satellite. We're in a transition period and I suspect eventually the European Parliament (or whoever) will probably enforce a deadline once the IPv6 transition is under way

    You could also say the same with 32bit and 64bit, this also is in a transition period. Maybe in 20 years, that also will probably be the norm too.

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    The crunch time will come when a player like microsoft decide to dis-continue IPv4 support in their next release of windows or something like that. That's probably the only time that most people will seriously start considering changing. I fully expect the main backbones of the internet to be running IPv6 long before then (some probably do already) and probably a transition period where both will be offered to end consumers from ISPs but there will be a cut off time at some point, there has to be or things won't progress.

    I expect most internal networks, and probably most LEAs will continue to run IPv4 all the time their software and hardware supports it, only moving over when they absolutely have to.

    Mike.
    Last edited by maniac; 1st August 2008 at 06:20 PM.

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    My Understanding is that IPv6 is supported and used at ISP / telco level already alongside IPv4 but I can see no business case for going over to IPv6 in education not unless you get complete hardware support for it, this includes your LEA as I can bet if your LEA is anything like mine they could not support it anyways.

    Not to mention the complete nightmare it would be to implement across the whole site.

    The most common thing I can see happening is people will continue to use IPv4 within the company network and simly NAT behind an IPv6 IP using a router/switch/appliance that can handle it.

    I don't see a broad takeup of IPv6 for at least 20 possibly 30 years at least not at our level.

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    It is certainly gaining ground in the HE sector - several universitys are implementing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Internally? There is zero need in a school. For example, our school has 2 public IP addresses, and >300 devices that have private IP addresses which connect out via NAT.

    IPv6 is only of any use on the internet, and even then, I still can't see the need for it - people are just using their IP allocations poorly. There are over 4 billion addresses in IPv4 address space, and there are most certainly not that many devices on the internet!
    somehow this reminds me of the "640kb will be plenty of RAM" ... type thinking :-)

    Even now, I suspect that many people will own 3 or 4 devices which have IP addresses. Add to this all the other devices (bus stops? buses? motorway signs? anything which can be remotely monitored?) and I suspect you're starting to get perilously close to 4 billion. Of course, if you NAT everything then that doesn't matter - I suspect quite a lot of PCs have got 192.168.0.2 as their IP and it all works fine - but it will be simpler to go IPV6 eventually.

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