RM Network

[webman]

The RM build process is fantastic, I just wish it was PXE-based.

Re: connect licences.. yes, I do agree these are still an additional extra cost associated with CC3 and we'd all love them to be cheaper, but as I've said before - the benefits we get from CC3 far outweigh the cost.

CC3 slows your down, it gets in the way, its for monkeys.

From our experience - no, no, and we're not I'd rather say that vanilla is for monkeys as you have to code so much to get anything done

All the people we've spoken to with vanilla networks seem to have no end of problems locking things down, spending weeks/months solving problems with RIS and 3-hour-per-machine WDS issues.

A local RC school is contemplating moving back to RM CC3/4 after 4 years of 3 different half-managed and vanilla networks which we think is only in their best interest.

[Oops_my_bad]

I think you all scared the OP off (and scared him from the job) now we have re-visited this can of worms?

**BREAKING NEWS - CC3 NETWORK OWNERS INVITED TO BUCKINGHAM PALACE**

All CC3 Network Managers will be invited to Buckingham Palace dates will be posted, the itinerary is as follows:

10.30am....all managers meet up in the Regents Park for final dress rehersal and welcome speech by Mayor of London..

11.45am...all CC3 servers will form a semi circle around the gates of palace for press/media.

12.30pm...her Majesty will greet all managers in palace grounds she will be presented with (I LOVE MY CC3) tee-shirt...

13.30pm...her Majesty with other members of the Royal family will discuss the benefits of tuning CC3 compared to Vanilla.

14.30pm to 1700pm....all owners will line up in front of her Majesty and she will display the Ceremonial sword and each owner will kneel and proudly be Knighted....(GOOD TASTE FOR EDUCATIONAL COMPUTING)....

[webman]

Hey... don't mock the I LOVE CC3 Tshirts

[Butuz]

Their current build process has to go down and the worst possible way to image/build PCs in history in my opinion.

Ash.

Its a very good way of building / imaging workstations that are not all identical. I am pretty sure there are not many schools out there that have actually standardised on one particular workstation type, and then replace them every 3 years. This makes imaging very easy and this is why corporate networks dont tend to need RM's build process. However if you rewind to a network where you have maybe 40 different workstation types with an age varying over 5 years - THEN RM's build process comes in extremely useful. Norton ghost etc on the other hand would be the opposite of useful.

People who bash RM, usually have only had experience with a badly set up / badly run CC3 network.

Andrew

[bossman]

@Butuz:
I totally agree with you having ran a CC3 network for 5 years now with no major problems.

Unfortunately the school opposite us has had 4 vanilla networks implemented in the past five years which they are still having problems with. They have asked us if they can look at how our network is implemented as they are looking at moving back to RM.

This is not a snipe at vanilla networks but just an example that problems occur on any type of network it is how you manage those problems that count.

[spc-rocket]

Their current build process has to go down and the worst possible way to image/build PCs in history in my opinion.

Ash.

People who bash RM, usually have only had experience with a badly set up / badly run CC3 network.

Andrew

Not true we run CC3 across 750 stations (yes 750) and the software side is not too bad especially with lock down etc. Of course we do standardise on equipment from Dell and therefore could the build process could be better. Also if you notice many posts on communities forum you will find that people wstill have problems with the build process when the PCs are not from RM - seems to me they are trying lock people into buying RM hardware. Of course the RM will build find because they have tested this, if the build process for really flexible then there should be easier way to build non-RM PCs. Now obviously they have thought about the feeback and comments because CC4 will have build process based on better technology which is not only better but more managable and also well documented even outside the RM land.

I'm making comments here because our team have a high-level skill set and therefore could see alternatives to the current RM build process and are actually thinking out of the box rather than drilling in the idea that RM process are great and wonderful because they are so much in bed with RM.

Ash.

[Butuz]

Well personally here we have a wide selection of computers - lots of different types of RM, Dell, Dan, HP/Compaq and a couple of no name nasty ones. All will build correctly as long as you have loaded the correct network drivers into the build area. Workstations that can not be built tend to be el-cheapo ones that have network cards with no DOS drivers available - not really RM's fault to be honest.

A for your team having a high level skill set - thats all well and good (well, its very good!) but what if your team were to leave, or even god forbid the red bus syndrome happened - you were all going to a technical seminar together and your car was crashed - all of a sudden your school has a system implemented by high level staff - and those high level staff are not there, any temorary staff the school can get will probably not be high level, all of a sudden your school may be in big trouble.

This is one thing RM gives you - firstly you may be able to get some temorary staff in to help manage your network - if they read the RM user guide etc, or even went on an emergency managing CC3 course - they would probably do a decent job of doing the day to day stuff. Secondly - RM will support you in an emergency situation, with their engineers dialing in to help etc.

If the horrid situation described above were to happen I would be willing to wager a CC3 school could cope far better than a Vanilla school. and this is one situation where most people do not take into account when chosing a network system.

Andrew

[kkkk1]

Their current build process has to go down and the worst possible way to image/build PCs in history in my opinion.

Ash.

Its a very good way of building / imaging workstations that are not all identical.
People who bash RM, usually have only had experience with a badly set up / badly run CC3 network.

Andrew

Andrew Andrew Andrew, oh my god I never thought I would hear anyone say that. You must be in a very small minority. RM's build in my opinion is it's weakest feature, after attending many Seminars I've spoken to RM engineers and they freely admit their build process is weak and this was in front of hundreds of people. This is going to be addressed in CC4 thank goodness. As for previous comments regarding not having alot of experience of builds etc I have set up RIS on our Admin Network and you can RIS an XP image with all apps installed etc etc in 28mins. Also I used to work for NatWest and have created Ghost images etc for those guys, again it takes around 30 mins or less, not clocking on for two hours on a decent machine.

[localzuk]

Well personally here we have a wide selection of computers - lots of different types of RM, Dell, Dan, HP/Compaq and a couple of no name nasty ones. All will build correctly as long as you have loaded the correct network drivers into the build area. Workstations that can not be built tend to be el-cheapo ones that have network cards with no DOS drivers available - not really RM's fault to be honest.

A for your team having a high level skill set - thats all well and good (well, its very good!) but what if your team were to leave, or even god forbid the red bus syndrome happened - you were all going to a technical seminar together and your car was crashed - all of a sudden your school has a system implemented by high level staff - and those high level staff are not there, any temorary staff the school can get will probably not be high level, all of a sudden your school may be in big trouble.

This is one thing RM gives you - firstly you may be able to get some temorary staff in to help manage your network - if they read the RM user guide etc, or even went on an emergency managing CC3 course - they would probably do a decent job of doing the day to day stuff. Secondly - RM will support you in an emergency situation, with their engineers dialing in to help etc.

If the horrid situation described above were to happen I would be willing to wager a CC3 school could cope far better than a Vanilla school. and this is one situation where most people do not take into account when chosing a network system.

Andrew

I reckon there are likely to be more engineers out there who know vanilla w2k3 than there are who know CC3... Seems how 99% of businesses use 2k3 and not CC3.

[Butuz]

Yes but people who have worked outside education are not likeley to want to work in education unless they win the lottery? How many experienced engineers that have worked in business do you know that would apply for an ICT Tech job in a school?

Andrew

[localzuk]

Yes but people who have worked outside education are not likeley to want to work in education unless they win the lottery? How many experienced engineers that have worked in business do you know that would apply for an ICT Tech job in a school?

Andrew

If it is an emergency situation, like you stated, then you would approach a company to do the job... There are more companies with vanilla knowledge than CC3.

I was replying to your emergency situation.

[damienharrison]

Ooooppssss I seem to have pressed the red button and started WW3 and all I asked was a simple question.

How many experienced engineers that have worked in business do you know that would apply for an ICT Tech job in a school?

I did!!! Company I worked for went bust and luckily i ended up landing on my feet.

Thank you all for your information, should help me should I get shortlisted for the job (closing date was last Friday)

Cheers

=0)

[bossman]

I have worked in industry for 26 years before working in education and most use management tools other than the basic server tools.

In a fast moving environment you need management tools that are both robust and time saving. Having to daily write scripts to this and scripts to do that is quite labour intensive and could best be put to better use don't you think.

CC4 is win2k3R2 and i will be moving that way in the near future. This doesn't mean that i prefer RM to a vanilla setup as i am MCSE qualified and therefore would be capable of using vanilla, it is that it suits the schools needs as a solution that many other schools would like also.

[bossman]

@kkkk1: As for using RIS and creating an image for deployment I can do that in 5 mins using Acronis workstation build and deploy using Acronis remote server.

Horses for courses my over eager friend and as the years role by there will undoubtedly be many more solutions. The key is to find the solution that bests fits the needs of the establishment and also their budget.

[m25man]

@Butuz:
Unfortunately the school opposite us has had 4 vanilla networks implemented in the past five years which they are still having problems with. They have asked us if they can look at how our network is implemented as they are looking at moving back to RM.

If they have to ask that, then clearly the skill sets the network admin staff possess are woefully inadequate.

Anyone that has to depend on 3rd party management overlay products to manage the schools network are either;

1. Clearly to stupid to do it any other way.
2. Under staffed to the point that is the only real way to keep ontop of it.
3. Grossly underpaid so therefore couldn't give a toss!

Which one of those caps fits them!

I have yet to find a network manager worth his salt that wasn't glad to be rid of CC3, personally I prefer to have my taxes spent on paying a techies salary than lining the pockets of RM shareholders!