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Wireless Networks Thread, RM Network in Technical; @ russdev You cannot migrate services in a CC3 network on a to new server your self!!...
  1. #16
    nicholab's Avatar
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    Re: RM Network

    @ russdev

    You cannot migrate services in a CC3 network on a to new server your self!!

  2. #17

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    Re: RM Network

    @Nicholab

    Last time I checked you can maybe not good idea but if saying want to move one service installed on one cc3 server to another new server yes you can. you just need to know how.

    If you are on about removing cc3 then can do that yourself if wish.

    Russell

  3. #18

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    Re: RM Network

    Why anyone would want to remove CC3 is beyond me (unless moving to CC4 ) ... unless it's suffered from years of neglect or abuse

  4. #19
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    Re: RM Network

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    Why anyone would want to remove CC3 is beyond me (unless moving to CC4 ) ... unless it's suffered from years of neglect or abuse
    ...
    Beacuse it's restrictive and skill set killing.....

    Imagine for you next job interview in the real world....

  5. #20

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Re: RM Network

    @Grommit ... no more restrictive than going into a large corporation that already has a set and rigid domain, tree and forest structure with set tools deployed out as MMCs with delegated authority.

    You should see the hassle you have at Ford trying to implement a change that falls outside of the set scope you have access too ... it makes CC3 look positively relaxed.

    Horses for courses.

  6. #21

    webman's Avatar
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    Re: RM Network

    Skill set killing? Hmmm.... Not really. Still use my Windows knowledge and work around/under RM, Linux knowledge for over 50% of our servers that tie in with the AD domain, knowledge of email and web systems and loads of web development experience. And those are just technical..... It is only skill set killing or restrictive if you let it.

  7. #22

    russdev's Avatar
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    Re: RM Network

    Agree with Webman there but then there you go as always it's a choice. What is right for me maybe not right for you but that works other way around as well.

    Russell

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    Re: RM Network

    I have yet to find anything I can't do on my RM network
    I know a couple of what I thought were obvious things you can't do on an CC3 network, but they're part of my Vanilla B*llsh*t Detector[tm]... as in the day some critic mentions one I'll know they know enough about vanilla Windows for their comments on the particular RM config to be taken seriously.

    Because it's restrictive and skill set killing
    I don't think CC3 makes any particularly impressive Windows skills redundant, but most CC3 people have 3rd party support for everything remotely challenging, didn't have and don't acquire such skills. But if they don't outsource all that then they're dealing with pretty much the same stuff as everyone else.. plus all the spanners RM throw at the system.

    Imagine for you next job interview in the real world
    Lots of different jobs out there. If you go work for any serious real world org they will have a well-formed network already, with management tools, standards and procedures. If it's an international org you might find the latter get set by some team in another country. If you can coexist with CC3 chances are you won't have trouble adapting to someone else's existing "restrictive" environment. See also: Any BSF thread for the techie playground vs. corporate management debate.

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    Re: RM Network

    I use to like RM Connect in the Connect 2.x and RMNETLM days, when there was just cause to somebody paying for it even competent system managers.

    After all , what management tools were out there for Windows 9x? You had System Management Server but that was aimed for NT 4 Server and NT 4 Workstation. Most educational software ran on Windows 9x only, which out of the box came with no security, no real managment software, except poledit, which lets face it was easy to get around. Also NT 3.51/NT4 had a very flat managment system, just look at the User Manager, the RM Connect 2.x implimentation of it was very good, gave you what active directory gives you now in a way, you could put users in folders. Also gave you Software Distrobusion software, Quota for File and Print, which NT 4 lacked, the tools were all fast and responsive and looked nice.

    Microsoft made vast improvments, and i do mean vast, they gave with the OS almost everything you need out of the box, and what did RM do, drag their feet!!!, what happened to an RM Connect that supported Windows ME? Windows 2000 Pro?

    With a 2003 Server and XP Pro client i can do almost everything a CC3 can do, but can save £100 per client (which is RM's price on the website), and also save on the server side licening which must be £1000's. We have 400 workstations which would cost us £40,000 extra MINIMUM in RM Connect licences. How can anyone justify paying that much for RM Connect 3? The excuse of it saves time is no longer there, the only extra you get is Printer Credit's which Pcounter do a solution for a 1 of £400. Want to push out new software, open the group policy for that OU, add new software, select MSI, a monkey could do it, even without CC3.

    Look at the Windows forum on the site, people asking about WDS, RM Connect does not use this, but a tech using a vanilla setup will learn and increase his/her skill set, so not only will they know RIS which CC3 does not use, but WDS, so *if* they leave education, they know what they are doing in the real world of Windows Deployment, not RM Fairy Land.

    As for 200 lines of code to map a printer, i'm affraid i do it in 3.

    Like i said at the begining, i use to like RM Connect, but now its a waste of money. Even then RM Connect 2.x was not really secure, i left school in 1998, was not allowed on a networked PC in last year of high school, was a "threat" apparently. Went to college where they ran RM Connect 2.3/2.4 Same things RM File Protector peice of piss to get around, you could use the Replicator account to get write access to the C:\Winnt folder on the servers, and thats after they realise you know the Admin2 account is set still to "changeme". As a pupil growing up around RM when i was at high school, i know how the kids feel about them in my own school and why they vandalise the RM equipement but not the other equipment in school, cause its RM!!!!

  10. #25

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    Re: RM Network

    Well I can say for a start, we do not pay £100 per connect licence, it is a lot cheaper when buying in bulk, like we do.

    You don't find any use for Connect 3 - great - don't use it

    We pay for what we think is a good, solid network system with the tools that give us the freedom to concentrate on better things than RIS issues and VBScripts; and yes, we can use the so-called 'excuse' of "saving time" because it genuinely does, for our situation.

    What some people seem to forget is that we are in an educational environment - not a corporate network.

    But that doesn't mean I or my colleagues are deskilled because we have an RM network. Personal development comes in to it and whether you run an RM network or not has no baring on that if you a reprepared to learn (like I am).

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    Re: RM Network

    I do resespect you webman, cause i think your web skills are very good, excellent even, whilst like you say it is an educational network, not corporate, Windows 2003 is designed for?

    Corproate. Putting RM Connect in the middle wastes your departmental budgets. (sorry just come out of the sauna pissed).

    A few more clicks is worth it my book, 1 click more for you gives english the books it needs instead of wasting the money buying an RM licence to do the same thing. When i started at this school it was RM Connect, my head of IT was VERY scared when i said dump RM.

    But he was VERY happy, when in the EARLY days of RM Connect 3, he came back from a meeting with other head of IT's at other school, where he could say power button being pressed to desktop fully loaded was 50 seconds, yet CC3 users were upto 10 mins.

    Sorry an RM Performance Pack sorted that, cause there were "Issues" , so if you paid a bomb for CC3, it will get you logged on before the lesson finishs now.

    Only place RM Connect 3 is for is where you have no ICT Tech onsite, as CC3 slows your down, it gets in the way, its for monkeys.

  12. #27

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    Re: RM Network

    I go back to the example of large corporate network.

    It is vanilla ... it is setup up to deal with around 1500 users, over 80% of these hot desk on a regular basis, a variety of hardware and bespoke software to deal with.

    The AD structure has been designed by someone who gets paid large amounts of money ... he codes extra tools ... he builds consoles to delegate control of certain services or functions.

    The company has a team that runs things when he is not around (which was the idea) and he only gets called in for redevelopment, dealign with the software breaking due to OS patches, and so on ...

    This is the case in at least 3 FTSE 100 companies ... and CC3 would do for them extremely well.

    It is horses for courses.

    Ok ... pro/anti CC3 discussions are vampire threads ... move along ... nothing to see (or any new comments made!)

  13. #28

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    Re: RM Network

    CC3 would do for them extremely well.
    Chances are they already bought OpenView etc. If you have the money in the real-world you buy tools to make management easier. Native Windows management still isn't that good, especially for larger orgs.

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    Re: RM Network

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    Well I can say for a start, we do not pay £100 per connect licence, it is a lot cheaper when buying in bulk, like we do.

    You don't find any use for Connect 3 - great - don't use it

    We pay for what we think is a good, solid network system with the tools that give us the freedom to concentrate on better things than RIS issues and VBScripts; and yes, we can use the so-called 'excuse' of "saving time" because it genuinely does, for our situation.

    What some people seem to forget is that we are in an educational environment - not a corporate network.

    But that doesn't mean I or my colleagues are deskilled because we have an RM network. Personal development comes in to it and whether you run an RM network or not has no baring on that if you a reprepared to learn (like I am).
    The CC3 licenses even when bought in bulk is expensive. So rather than being £90 a shot it might go down to say around £65 each when bought with 30-50 or so i guess, - i'm commenting this on what i have found but i still think its expensive and few people have got a point. Now i have been trying to get RM to respond as to what is included in a RM CC3 license but so far they have now got back to me. Also they still instsit on puttin in the RM tutor (i'm not going to comment on how good or bad it is because our school does not use it) when some schools (such as ours) don't use it. They should be an option pick what you want rather than enforcing this i.e. take the printer credits stuff out for people who don't use it.
    The starnge thing is that from various people i spoke to some account managers do exclude tutor licenses and some don't so there is an inconsistancy on what they feedback to the customers.

    As far the RIS and WDS is concerned RM appears to have seen the light as their next version CC4 will be based on WDS. Their current build process has to go down and the worst possible way to image/build PCs in history in my opinion.

    Ash.

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    Re: RM Network

    the worst possible way to image/build PCs in history
    Naah.. thats a tech with a pile of CDs spending a day in front of each PC.

    So what is wrong with RMs? I can't see any major difference between that and any uhh.. classic method. (Comparisons with relatively recent WDS/AIK stuff don't count).

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