+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 32
Wireless Networks Thread, WiFi lacking in Schools in Technical; Interesting article ; BBC News - School wi-fi 'not fit for 21st Century learning' No talk of the implications of ...
  1. #1

    fiza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,372
    Thank Post
    477
    Thanked 339 Times in 287 Posts
    Rep Power
    158

    WiFi lacking in Schools

    Interesting article ;

    BBC News - School wi-fi 'not fit for 21st Century learning'

    No talk of the implications of BYOD

  2. #2
    Gibson335's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    983
    Thank Post
    272
    Thanked 142 Times in 113 Posts
    Rep Power
    82
    It's as if wi-fi in and of itself is enough to provide this utopia...ideally this would have explored in equal measure the cost and other implications of the devices used as well. It's more of a prolonged soundbite than an article.

  3. #3

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    18,530
    Thank Post
    527
    Thanked 2,648 Times in 2,049 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    925
    Wifi is a great addition to a good network. But it has to be attached to a good network in the first place - putting it in without a good network to support it is pointless.

    I've been to plenty of primary schools where they have no onsite IT provision and their IT is provided on a 'is it cheap? buy it' basis. This means that often, their switch gear is unmanaged, 100Mbit maximum anywhere, even at the server. 10Mbit internet maximum etc...

    If you slap a decent wireless system in there, and start using devices on it, you're just asking for issues when you hit a bump in the old creaking equipment.

    So, wireless is a lot more expensive than that, as you'd need to update switches and servers first.

    Not to mention, you then need staff to use it and innovate with it, which in a lot of cases simply isn't going to happen. Many schools can't afford to buy these mobile devices that everyone is going on about at the moment.

  4. #4
    Gibson335's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    983
    Thank Post
    272
    Thanked 142 Times in 113 Posts
    Rep Power
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Wifi is a great addition to a good network. But it has to be attached to a good network in the first place - putting it in without a good network to support it is pointless.

    I've been to plenty of primary schools where they have no onsite IT provision and their IT is provided on a 'is it cheap? buy it' basis. This means that often, their switch gear is unmanaged, 100Mbit maximum anywhere, even at the server. 10Mbit internet maximum etc...

    If you slap a decent wireless system in there, and start using devices on it, you're just asking for issues when you hit a bump in the old creaking equipment.

    So, wireless is a lot more expensive than that, as you'd need to update switches and servers first.

    Not to mention, you then need staff to use it and innovate with it, which in a lot of cases simply isn't going to happen. Many schools can't afford to buy these mobile devices that everyone is going on about at the moment.
    Agreed. A lot of people don't realise that a wi-fi network relies on a cabled network at its core, that you have to consider issues such as power to the APs (so direct power, POE injectors, even POE switches), capacity on existing infrastructure, improving infrastructure, before you even get started on the devices...it's not that most of us wouldn't like it, we just have to make sure the decision makers are aware of the implications.

  5. #5
    CamelMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    268
    Thank Post
    29
    Thanked 79 Times in 55 Posts
    Rep Power
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by Gibson335 View Post
    It's as if wi-fi in and of itself is enough to provide this utopia...ideally this would have explored in equal measure the cost and other implications of the devices used as well. It's more of a prolonged soundbite than an article.
    Wifi + IPads = answer to all educational issues.

    Apparently......

    Good point by OP - so you stick £15,000 worth of wireless infrastructure in - then what? What about all the wireless equipment for the students to embrace their "digital learning", BYOD infrastructure and policies.

    A carefully planned and managed steady introduction of integration of IT into all levels of education as well as training and additional funding to support existing and future developments? Nah cut the funding then tell them all they just need more wireless everywhere.

    Wifi is great - but IMHO not as vital as people seem to see (as in you don't need it to teach - better equipment and teacher embracing of current tech would be as benificial for students. Some of our teachers think its magic when you show them how to freeze a projector for crying out loud)

  6. #6

    m25man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Romford, Essex
    Posts
    1,682
    Thank Post
    49
    Thanked 484 Times in 351 Posts
    Rep Power
    144
    "It's expensive, at about £15,000 to connect a primary school with 500 pupils and up to £50,000 for a large comprehensive"

    Good old Xirrus again fanning the flames, when are these so called experts going to wake up and realise that many schools barely have enough cash to keep the boilers running through winter and fix the leaking classroom roof!

    Makes me laugh.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    601
    Thank Post
    29
    Thanked 80 Times in 69 Posts
    Rep Power
    30
    Xirrus and Meru just happen to be commercial partners of the "e-learning foundation" who conducted the survey, need you say more really.

  8. Thanks to Tallwood_6 from:

    CPLTD (22nd February 2013)

  9. #8

    timbo343's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Leeds/York area, North Yorkshire
    Posts
    3,198
    Thank Post
    321
    Thanked 314 Times in 219 Posts
    Rep Power
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by m25man View Post
    "It's expensive, at about £15,000 to connect a primary school with 500 pupils and up to £50,000 for a large comprehensive"

    Good old Xirrus again fanning the flames, when are these so called experts going to wake up and realise that many schools barely have enough cash to keep the boilers running through winter and fix the leaking classroom roof!

    Makes me laugh.
    A teacher posted this link to me saying see you're ahead and i kinda bit back with a right rant at the fact its all about money at the end of the day, if you havent got the money it cannot be done.
    I dont think they were too impressed, however its the truth.

    I also noticed the article mentioned xirrus, they quoted £40,000 for whole school, meru £54,000 so we started the ball rolling with ruckus phased in with 2 controllers, 6 APs from @CPLTD about £2250. I also said that its a fad at the moment.
    Last edited by timbo343; 20th February 2013 at 08:54 PM.

  10. #9
    denon101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Stuck in the server room......
    Posts
    404
    Thank Post
    54
    Thanked 37 Times in 35 Posts
    Rep Power
    22
    I went with a Ruckus system in the end. It was after a lot of research and testing. Also the costs of £15000 seem a lot to me. Our entire setup which is a single controller and 12ap's only cost at most £5-6k. (including dual band ap's) This has provided us with wireless across the site. Including to the bottom of the school field some 200 meters away. It can be done, but must be thought out, planned and funded properly. It was also done in stages a few areas at a time. This helped us finance the project.
    Last edited by denon101; 20th February 2013 at 08:35 PM.

  11. #10

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    18,530
    Thank Post
    527
    Thanked 2,648 Times in 2,049 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    925
    Those prices sound about right for most commercial providers, when you put installation in too. Our self installed Ruckus cost us a lot less than that though. Schools just have to shop wisely.

  12. Thanks to localzuk from:

    CPLTD (22nd February 2013)

  13. #11

    john's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    10,454
    Thank Post
    1,543
    Thanked 1,070 Times in 935 Posts
    Rep Power
    305
    Full agreed with @localzuk these reports are biased and a bit of a scaremongering. A good BYOD setup costs a lot of money and time for hardware for infrastructure, training, support and getting it all right.

    Our place was a bit of want BYOD, I was it needs to be secure X Y and Z have to happen first which took time to sort and even more money, we have done it in the end as part of major refresh of our IT Infrastructure as this was a key feature of it but that wasn't a cheap setup by any stretch of the means but the excellent work we have done with @Net-Ctrl for both Ruckus and Juniper has ensured we achieved our goals and working with Smoothwall on the filtering side has given us an excellent BYOD setup and our Sixth Form are befitting from it.

  14. #12
    truebluesteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    462
    Thank Post
    71
    Thanked 58 Times in 49 Posts
    Rep Power
    27
    The report was commissioned by besa who want us to buy their members equipment so the report isn't entirely surprising in its findings. I would ask the following questions -

    1. The report mentions wireless in classrooms. Do they mean wireless availability in classrooms or an AP in each classroom. I suspect its the latter, and if so its a very disingenuous question because we all know that you don't need it.

    2. What are they going to use the Wi-Fi for. As someone said earlier, it's seems to be that lots of people think that iPads and Wireless are some sort of panacea for education. Without a teaching and learning strategy to go with all this expensive equipment they become a white elephant.

    We put our wireless network in 5 years ago and it has served us very well, but its not really up the whole BYOD thing, so we are in the process of looking at upgrading it. However we are in the fortunate position of being able to afford to do this, but many schools aren't.

  15. #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,279
    Thank Post
    115
    Thanked 247 Times in 197 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    76
    An AP in every classroom is like flood wiring CAT5e 10 years ago. If you can afford it, do it.... however with careful design and management (unique to each school, and the aspirations and expectations of its staff and students) you can get away with nearly 50% less in many cases, for the moment.

    Wireless is the future and far far too many schools have really poor wifi. It is shocking. It is often the poor wireless that causes the existing mobile kit to go unused. What is really depressing though is some schools have spent an awful lot on their wireless and it still doesn't meet their day to day needs, let alone their aspirations.

    £50K to a large secondary is peanuts, if wireless is strategically important then good wifi installation can be funded. That said for £50K I'd expect to see a properly implemented, 802.11x, BYOD and Guest Captive Portal, with secured VLANs and QoS with -60dB in 2.4 and 5Ghz across the site from a minimum of two APs per location, with at least 5 years technical support included.

  16. #14
    staningrimsby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Grimsby
    Posts
    143
    Thank Post
    5
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Rep Power
    4
    Why just make do though at a cost of less than £10K for a Ruckus controller and 25 ap's thats enough for one in each classroom and still a couple
    to scatter elsewhere its false economy in my opinion not to put one in each classroom at that price.

  17. #15

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,279
    Thank Post
    115
    Thanked 247 Times in 197 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    76
    Because there is more to building a high density wireless network than having a high density of APs

    and 25 classrooms is a small school... scaling that pricing up to a largish secondary, you are still looking at 35-40K including design and installation, assuming you don't need any additional switch/vlan work done.



SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. OSX and XP on the same machine in schools.
    By drjturner in forum Mac
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 30th June 2006, 10:53 PM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 4th April 2006, 11:25 AM
  3. Broadband in schools
    By wesleyw in forum Wireless Networks
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 21st February 2006, 05:36 PM
  4. Open source in schools
    By kevinmcaleer in forum General Chat
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 22nd December 2005, 09:52 PM
  5. Spyware/Adware in Schools
    By mrtechsystems in forum Windows
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 29th July 2005, 02:02 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •