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Wireless Networks Thread, Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy? in Technical; It’s been a right mess here. We have a good system that works only we wanted to move the old ...
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    Pottsey's Avatar
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    Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    It’s been a right mess here. We have a good system that works only we wanted to move the old server to a new more powerful one. We where talked into going AD at the same time only no one told us how restrictive it was, well this implantation of it. Simple jobs that took seconds mean we now need to ring up. They wont give us admin access even changing passwords means a phonecall. Usernames are unfriendly as well. No group policy control. Admin put on same Internet filtering as children tons of problems.

    Basically it’s a fully managed system taking control away from the school. The install has been stopped in its tracks once we learnt this and we asked for a different system as none of the AD restrictions where explained to us. Any other schools have problem with fully managed system where they cannot do anything? Who likes it and who doesn’t?

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    mark's Avatar
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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Our whole authority give staff the same restrictions on the web as kids. We think it essential to fully protect staff.

    I take it you have no techs local? If you do such tight control sounds excessive and wasteful.

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    Pottsey's Avatar
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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Not only do we have a IT Tech but we also have a support contract which means extra 3rd party IT staff in half a day every 2 weeks or more if there is a problem IT tech cannot fix.

    The problem we have with staff having the same restrictions on the web is we have very strick time based filtering. Nothing works during break time or lunchtime apart from a white list and during lesson time a lot is blocked.
    Staff don’t need it that strict and they don’t need it off at breaktime or dinner.

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    russdev's Avatar
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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    May I take stab and say this was on admin network

    Russ

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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Are you locked into this? I would never go that way, you need some control over your network.
    We have a good relationship with our network support team, but I rarely use them unless I am unable to sort out the problem myself.

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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Pottsey - i hope you and alot more people like you kick up a fuss about this as this is soon to be the norm.

    "They" (the gov) want every school to go to managed services which will mean it will (potentially) be even worse as it wont be your frieldly local LEA/support, it will be a big corporate giant who's got their payment so couldnt give a f?*$ about their users, and especially not to reset a dozen kids passwords *imediately* because you cant get on with your lesson until they do - (imagine come september how many kids will have forgot their password over the hols)

    And not to mention "they" are putting people like us out of a job.

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    kestrel1's Avatar
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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    If that happens I am leaving. How stupid is the government????

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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Who provides this so called 'service'?

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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    We Destroyed our LEA controlled admin network 3 1/2 year ago and incorporated it into our nice Vanilla network (which i am the only left that set it up, and i sometimes think the new NM forgets that!) i found having to stick with their username, pc names and that all to restrictive and they were all using the same proxy server, internet gateway and exchange server so wasn't too dramatic, the only support contract left with the LEA is SIMS and we get an answer on average of and 1hr later, they are a great support team, and me as the SIMS system manager greatly appreciate this.

    I think it would be bad if it is the correct company, i would love to hear about any people out there where the school has already opted into the managed ICT system and see how they are coping.

    IMO i think that RM (although would never choose any managed solution myself) could make life a hell of a lot easier, but I can firmly say i will not be working under an outsourced company i am currently Training to be an LSA(TA) so by the time it kicks in here (about 2010/11) i will be doing something else for keeping my pension, especially they will need people that can use PCs without a problem because they are trying to give every pupil from yr9 upwards a handheld device.

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    Pottsey's Avatar
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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    I prefer not to mention any names as it’s an ongoing problem that’s slowly being fixed and I know the company sometimes read these forums. They wanted to mix the admin network with the classroom PC’s so it’s all the system IP range and system among many other problems.

    No we are not locked into this. At least not yet. I heard in the long term schools have to go to managed services. But from what I have seen this week it’s a very bad solution. It’s seems silly they go on about all the good points ignoring all the bad points. Simple tasks that should take seconds like changing a password require a phone call with managed services. Want to install software? No you have to wait for someone to turn it into a MSI and send it out over the server. Failing harddisk forgot about a quick swap and getting the PC up for the lesson.

    There solution to admin having to strick Internet filtering was to relax our Internet filtering and send out a AUP to children so they wouldn’t go on wrong sites. Am I the only one who thinks AUP and relaxed Internet filtering is a bad idea for secondary school kids? To me an AUP should be along side the filtering not instead off.

    They even told us the system had been implanted in xx other schools and we where the only one with problems. Don’t remember what number xx was, I wonder how true that is. On forums I get the impression other schools hate the system. Its only nice for primary schools without IT techs.

    This is my mean reason to post. I was wondering what schools have a managed service and who are happy with it. Who are not happy?



    “Pottsey - i hope you and alot more people like you kick up a fuss about this as this is soon to be the norm.”
    How do we fight this? It’s not mandatory right now so I am and will kick up a fuss. But what happens when it is mandatory?

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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    IF enough teachers, aka the users, tell the gov its a bad idea then it wont stick. Saying that when does the gov ever listen to us?

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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pottsey
    No we are not locked into this. At least not yet. I heard in the long term schools have to go to managed services. But from what I have seen this week it’s a very bad solution. It’s seems silly they go on about all the good points ignoring all the bad points. Simple tasks that should take seconds like changing a password require a phone call with managed services. Want to install software? No you have to wait for someone to turn it into a MSI and send it out over the server. Failing harddisk forgot about a quick swap and getting the PC up for the lesson.


    They even told us the system had been implanted in xx other schools and we where the only one with problems. Don’t remember what number xx was, I wonder how true that is. On forums I get the impression other schools hate the system. Its only nice for primary schools without IT techs.
    You don't mention if you school is part of the BSF.. Is it ?

    Because if it is you're stuffed and cannot get out of the Managed Services as thats what the government wants for all schools..

    And if you are the network manager your position under BSF is redundant in your present role at your school..

    Read the BSF Forums.. http://www.edugeek.net/index.php?nam...viewforum&f=45

    If you are not part of the BSF project just yet and you are unhappy with what is being implemented you can restructure and renegotiate your "Contract" with the ICT company for a different level of service...

    i.e .. Please take away the fully managed service and only give us helpdesk support for the Network that you are installing for US..

    If it is a non BSF installation then it is YOUR network and servers and you can tell them to do what you want...

    This is as long as you have the support of your Head Teacher... if this is not the case you will have to convince the Head why the fully managed service is not good for teaching and learning..

    If it is BSF you have no chance...

    Under the BSF managed services the technicians no longer work for the school they work for the ICT Company.. and if there is a job request a ticket has to be raised and assesed if it part of the contract or not.. and if not a purchase order has to be raised by the school to get the job done .. and it has to be signed and faxed before the job gets started .... like moving a printer..

    Support for the printer is in the contract but moving it is not.. so threfore it's an additional charge.

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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Part of the problem with things like this is that the implementation of it is often screwed because it is trying to make a 'one size fits all' solution.

    It is possible to join schools (ie site / organisations) together and delegate relevant control to the admins of those systems.

    One of the ideas behind a centrally managed system is to have a central AD or other Directory Service as part of the move to the NEN. This is fine as long as it is not used as stick to force people into something that is not needed. Federation of services can lead to a reduction of costs for additional services that are offered by the LA or RBC ... and that can add up to a sizable chunk ... the money saved can then be dripped down to the schools for them to use too.

    On the down side, the excessive control can lead to a stifling of innovation, both in the technology available to users to access and also in the way the use of technology is developed.

    Trying to get a happy middle ground is hard ... damn hard. Can you sit down with them and chat with them about the services you want from them and how you can still retain control?

    As far as the AUP goes ... dropping the level of filtering is not an option. If the level you have at the moment is appropriate then it is appropriate ... the AUP should be there anyway as the school (and LA's) drive for eSafety.

    Most RBCs are very touchy about just dropping levels of filtering without good reason or protection that can be put in place instead.

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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky
    IF enough teachers, aka the users, tell the gov its a bad idea then it wont stick. Saying that when does the gov ever listen to us?
    I wounder if the union can fight our corner

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    mark's Avatar
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    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by BKGarry
    i am currently Training to be an LSA(TA)
    In my school they set on HLTAs with no qualifications or experience. A brand new employee off the street without any relevant experience was set on as HLTA in the middle of last year. I thought this was the norm in all schools, and that stuff on Teachers TV was all lies.

    Sorry to post off topic - couldn't not point that out.

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