+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 35
Wireless Networks Thread, Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy? in Technical; mark: Are you sure it was an HL TA, as opposed to a regular TA? I was on the understanding ...
  1. #16

    webman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    8,403
    Thank Post
    637
    Thanked 961 Times in 661 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    319

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    mark: Are you sure it was an HLTA, as opposed to a regular TA? I was on the understanding someone had to be a certain level of qualification to be able to go on the course/assessment to become a higher-level TA.

  2. #17
    Oops_my_bad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Man chest hair
    Posts
    1,738
    Thank Post
    438
    Thanked 53 Times in 50 Posts
    Rep Power
    30

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by bishopsgarthstockton
    I wounder if the union can fight our corner
    Don't count on it - although they're very good at making the process (for them) as difficult as possible

  3. #18
    Grommit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Weston-super-Mare
    Posts
    1,335
    Thank Post
    31
    Thanked 54 Times in 31 Posts
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    Part of the problem with things like this is that the implementation of it is often screwed because it is trying to make a 'one size fits all' solution.

    It is possible to join schools (ie site / organisations) together and delegate relevant control to the admins of those systems.

    One of the ideas behind a centrally managed system is to have a central AD or other Directory Service as part of the move to the NEN. This is fine as long as it is not used as stick to force people into something that is not needed. Federation of services can lead to a reduction of costs for additional services that are offered by the LA or RBC ... and that can add up to a sizable chunk ... the money saved can then be dripped down to the schools for them to use too.

    On the down side, the excessive control can lead to a stifling of innovation, both in the technology available to users to access and also in the way the use of technology is developed.

    Tony are you ever going to take sides on the Managed Services issue as you are doing a fantastic job of sitting on the fence...

    We need people like you condeming The Governments Managed Services Policy and shout that from up high... not just sit on the fence with School Politic Political Correctness Spin..

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    mark: Are you sure it was an HLTA, as opposed to a regular TA? I was on the understanding someone had to be a certain level of qualification to be able to go on the course/assessment to become a higher-level TA.
    Oh is this is the new Government initiative of getting the Teaching Assistants to become basic level ICT Support..

    Our County is offering TA's the chance to go on a quick Free course to learn basic ICT support..

    This is to Supplement the outsourcing of the In House ICT Departments to the Managed Service companies and the technicians onsite will not be controlled by the school so they are trying to make the Teaching Assistants do some of the dog work (like moving printers)

    Quote Originally Posted by kestrel1
    If that happens I am leaving. How stupid is the government????
    It is mate... It's called the BSF and it's coming to take over every In-House ICT Department in Secondary Schools in the country and outsource in to a Large Managed Service Company..

    BSF Link http://www.edugeek.net/index.php?nam...viewforum&f=45

  4. #19

    webman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    8,403
    Thank Post
    637
    Thanked 961 Times in 661 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    319

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Ohhh in that case its worse than I thought Grommit... grr

  5. #20
    Pottsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Nottinghamsire
    Posts
    759
    Thank Post
    3
    Thanked 52 Times in 42 Posts
    Rep Power
    29

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    No we are not part of BSF yet. Still a very long way off.

  6. #21

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    9,930
    Thank Post
    1,337
    Thanked 1,781 Times in 1,105 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    594

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit
    Tony are you ever going to take sides on the Managed Services issue as you are doing a fantastic job of sitting on the fence...

    We need people like you condeming The Governments Managed Services Policy and shout that from up high... not just sit on the fence with School Politic Political Correctness Spin..
    If I could honestly say that, for all schools, having a Centrally Managed Service was a bad thing then I would be out there ... shouting it down and doing what I can to make it flaming difficult for things to go ahead.

    Unfortunately I have come across a good number of schools where, in so many ways, it will make more of a positive difference then a negative one. Schools that have poor investment in IT facilities and IT support who, in spite of going on SLICT and having assistance from a many groups, still bugger things up and are likely to put the school in financial jeopardy due to white elephants and unsustainability. Schools where the politics and in-house power struggles dictate what goes on and not the needs of the users. Schools where NMs / Technicians *are* blockers and are antagonistic to *all* users. I wish I could say that these are a minority but from personal experience (and only personal experience) I would say that at secondary level it goes back to what I have said before. 1/3 are fantastic and pushing things forward, 1/3 are at the status quo point and 1/3 of schools are well below par and the IT adds virtually nothing to the school.

    There are things that I want to do, over and above anything I do as part of EduGeek, to try and make sure that the positive things are not lost under BSF. I have also realised that even though there are a goodly number of people in important education organisations / QANGOs who don't agree with how BSF is being done ... *they* are pretty powerless to do things about it and *they* are just trying to do what they can to ensure that the good things of it come out on top.

    BSF is unbelievably political. I know a lot of education initiatives are but this one even more so. Because of this there is a chance that some things get lost on the way and some LAs may chose it as an opportunity to do some rearranging and that gets thrown into the mix too.

    To clearly indicate my view point ... I cannot see there is any way short of serious political negotiations to stop BSF. The unions have not decided to jump in on this, neither have the QANGOs or other interested groups.

    However, I can see how things can be done to hold people accountable and to ensure that what work is done on the IT side of things can be brought to the front and make a seriously positive difference. Ensure that there is still a goodly amount of local control. Work to continue innovation. Making sure that bearaucracy does not get in the way.

    The important thing in this is making sure that there is consultation (yeah .. I know .. another buzzword, but one that will be recognisable to the BSF contract winners who lurk on the site). The stuff with LEPs is not working that well (again ... personal opinion based on what I have been told by some people involved) and the NCSL course has not been as successful as it should have been.

    Some of these are being addressed at the moment but it will take more work and more talking.

    So .. a summary. Personally I cannot see any short or medium term way to get rid of BSF. I can see a number of ways to make sure that it is not buggered up. I will work on what I can do to to bring out the good points and try and perform damage limitation on the bits I can't.

    I am not sitting in the fence ... think of it as building a platform across the fence to pass food parcels to the POWs and at the same time berate and call to task the guards for the slovenly attire and poor planning.

  7. #22


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,032 Times in 812 Posts
    Rep Power
    339

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Unfortunately I have come across a good number of schools where, in so many ways, it will make more of a positive difference then a negative one. Schools that have poor investment in IT facilities and IT support who, in spite of going on SLICT and having assistance from a many groups, still bugger things up and are likely to put the school in financial jeopardy due to white elephants and unsustainability. Schools where the politics and in-house power struggles dictate what goes on and not the needs of the users. Schools where NMs / Technicians *are* blockers and are antagonistic to *all* users. I wish I could say that these are a minority but from personal experience (and only personal experience) I would say that at secondary level it goes back to what I have said before. 1/3 are fantastic and pushing things forward, 1/3 are at the status quo point and 1/3 of schools are well below par and the IT adds virtually nothing to the school.
    Sadly this is all too true, and it's not always the IT staff to blame - but pressures from incompetent management. The problem is a lack of accountability in schools, solve this and there is rarely need for outsourcing.

  8. #23
    Pottsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Nottinghamsire
    Posts
    759
    Thank Post
    3
    Thanked 52 Times in 42 Posts
    Rep Power
    29

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    “think of it as building a platform across the fence to pass food parcels to the POWs and at the same time”
    I see it more as putting a checkpoint on a busy hallway slowing down traffic so simple jobs now take ages. The idea behind it isn’t bad it just implanted badly. There should be more local control.

    I can see a lots of lessons plans being scrapped due to problems not being fixed right away. It’s not like a Teacher can make a phone call during lesson and then wait for someone to fix the problem.



    “Unfortunately I have come across a good number of schools where, in so many ways, it will make more of a positive difference then a negative one.”
    I agree its positive in some schools the problem is when they come across a school where it will have a negative difference they just ignore it and say look its working in the other schools, listing xx positive school name, so it should work for you.

  9. #24

    webman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    8,403
    Thank Post
    637
    Thanked 961 Times in 661 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    319

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Schools where the politics and in-house power struggles dictate what goes on and not the needs of the users.
    Where are the guarantees that IT managed services will be any better?

  10. #25
    mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,958
    Thank Post
    248
    Thanked 49 Times in 45 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    46

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    mark: Are you sure it was an HLTA, as opposed to a regular TA? I was on the understanding someone had to be a certain level of qualification to be able to go on the course/assessment to become a higher-level TA.
    Yes. Classroom supervisors by any other name. They cover lessons so are solely in charge of classes. The TAs were asked if they wanted the job and none did. We have 3 HLTAs now, none with any qualifications.

    That was my understanding too from watching TeachTV.

  11. #26

    webman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    8,403
    Thank Post
    637
    Thanked 961 Times in 661 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    319

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    That's shocking. But sadly, believable. :cry:

  12. #27

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    9,930
    Thank Post
    1,337
    Thanked 1,781 Times in 1,105 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    594

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    Schools where the politics and in-house power struggles dictate what goes on and not the needs of the users.
    Where are the guarantees that IT managed services will be any better?
    This boils down to how the SLA is set up between the LEP, the school and the specific company. Companies that fail to meet the required standards or give a service that leads to a drop in performance of the schools will be financially penalised ... and it could be quite heavily.

  13. #28


    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,411
    Thank Post
    184
    Thanked 356 Times in 285 Posts
    Rep Power
    148

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    This boils down to how the SLA is set up between the LEP, the school and the specific company. Companies that fail to meet the required standards or give a service that leads to a drop in performance of the schools will be financially penalised ... and it could be quite heavily.
    You've just highlighted the main problem there. We all know too well that the Gov/RBCs/LEAs cant seem to do this right, Cachepilot and SIMS being great examples. I assume they both have SLAs signed, so why in the SLA does it not state "must be fit for purpose"?

    If it did say "must be fit for purpose" then why is it that capita are in the firm belief that all users should have power user, or better still, admin rights?
    Theres so many reasons why cachepilot is useless i cant ven be bothered listing them as it really would take all day.

    But maybe in the SLA it does say "must be fit for purpose", and the gov/rbcs/leas arnt doing anything about it. Either way...

  14. #29
    kestrel1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New Forest
    Posts
    294
    Thank Post
    3
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
    Rep Power
    20

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Who loves our government????
    What sort of fools work in the government??
    This country has gone to the dogs. I would get out if I could, but I love the weather.

  15. #30
    Grommit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Weston-super-Mare
    Posts
    1,335
    Thank Post
    31
    Thanked 54 Times in 31 Posts
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: Any schools use managed Active Directory and not happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    Schools where the politics and in-house power struggles dictate what goes on and not the needs of the users.
    Where are the guarantees that IT managed services will be any better?
    This boils down to how the SLA is set up between the LEP, the school and the specific company. Companies that fail to meet the required standards or give a service that leads to a drop in performance of the schools will be financially penalised ... and it could be quite heavily.
    But by that time all the in-house Technicans have gone to the new company or retrenched.. and the Network Manager is so other lower role, sidelined or retrenched..

    So it is a case of putting all you eggs in one basket and hoping for the best as there is no IT Manager to assist the School with it's problems and it will be up to the Teaching Staff or Business Manager to deal with these issues.. and hopefully the Business Manager has the ICT Knowledge to know what he requires.. or to spot if they are speaking rubbish

    And by God do not get into a dispute with your Managed Service Company because they like lots of other companies do.. might withhold service untill they are paid..


    yes yes Tony I know there are checks and balances.. but the bottom line is on Grass roots level that most companies play the blame game...

    I deal with it every day.. they all try to squirm out of responsibility and blame it on the kids..... and it's lots of companies that do this when it is plainly in their scope of works....

    Now I as an ICT Manager stand my ground because I know what is right .. whats a Business Manager going to do ?

    "Its the Flux Capacitor on the Server Mr Business Manager"... "It's worn out and its not under warrenty"... "It's gonna cost £500 to replace"...

    In Fact I saw RM once replace a 80GB HDD into a server and they charged the school £600

    Then me as a feeder school Network Manager saw this and spoke to the Head that this was out of order and excessive.... we confronted RM who dropped the price to £300..

    Now if I as a feeder school Network Manager was not there then they would have paid up not knowing that it was wrong..

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Active Directory Auditing??
    By ICTNUT in forum How do you do....it?
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 28th November 2012, 02:21 AM
  2. active directory all messed up
    By alonebfg in forum Windows
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 7th January 2008, 08:25 PM
  3. PDA and Active Directory
    By localzuk in forum Windows
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10th October 2007, 03:54 PM
  4. TeraStation and Active Directory
    By mmoseley in forum Hardware
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 6th September 2007, 01:28 PM
  5. Active Directory Design
    By tscnmuk in forum Windows
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 27th February 2007, 03:13 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •