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Wireless Networks Thread, Propaganda: Ruckus versus HP access point in Technical; Just found, unfortunately only one slide......
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    Propaganda: Ruckus versus HP access point

    Just found, unfortunately only one slide...
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    we've been using Rucku without any problems for a while now - but maybe its time to look around.

    Does anyone know how the licencing works with HP? is it as simple as ruckus?

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    AngryTechnician's Avatar
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    If that graph is an accurate representation (and I suspect it isn't), HP must have made some shocking advances with their wireless kit. It used to be awful, as well as expensive.

    If you import the file into Inkscape or another PDF editor, you can remove the amateur 'red square' redaction at the bottom left and reveal an HP logo underneath, suggesting this is originally from an HP slide deck. Not exactly an unbiased source.

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    chazzy2501's Avatar
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    I've been looking into ruckus stuff and they support their claims with an independent review on Toms Hardware which convinces me that the APs are as good as their claims.

    EDIT: Changed Link

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ance,2985.html
    Last edited by chazzy2501; 25th September 2012 at 02:35 PM.

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    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryTechnician View Post
    If that graph is an accurate representation (and I suspect it isn't), HP must have made some shocking advances with their wireless kit. It used to be awful, as well as expensive.

    If you import the file into Inkscape or another PDF editor, you can remove the amateur 'red square' redaction at the bottom left and reveal an HP logo underneath, suggesting this is originally from an HP slide deck. Not exactly an unbiased source.
    Even if it is an accurate figure this does not take into account signal stability. If the signal strength is showing up lower then the laptop has to boost power burning more battery and the link is more likely to drop in the case of a meat sack wandering into the transmission path. Higher signal strength is likely to mean more resilience and reliability in adverse conditions. Not that I know but from the provided detail none of these things are taken into account.

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    It would take a lot to get me away from Ruckus i must say! They just plug in and work (with a zone director!)

    We won't be supplying HP over Ruckus any time soon then! (good spot on the slide! @AngryTechnician)

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    gshaw's Avatar
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    Have HP sorted out their management console yet? Last time I looked it couldn't do captive portal or guest authentication without an additional box and software (at extra cost of course!)

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    apeo's Avatar
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    Honestly our Ruckus stuff is great when it works but when it doesnt.. what a pain..

    I've been wondering if blanket wifi coverage (like that offered by Extricom), actually works or not but I still dont understand exactly how it works.

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    Dont do it!!! the HP kit is ***** ****
    Last edited by Dos_Box; 25th September 2012 at 09:24 PM. Reason: Profanity

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    glennda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apeman View Post
    Dont do it!!! the HP kit is ***** ****
    I agree
    Last edited by Dos_Box; 25th September 2012 at 09:25 PM.

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    MicrodigitUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apeo View Post
    Honestly our Ruckus stuff is great when it works but when it doesnt.. what a pain..

    I've been wondering if blanket wifi coverage (like that offered by Extricom), actually works or not but I still dont understand exactly how it works.
    Well I can tell you Extricom blankets at my school just didn't work. But my new Ruckus AP's we installed locally on laptop trolleys work 100% of the time. Only got Ruckus because Extricom fails on our site, but don't have the cash to completly replace the Extricom.

    I'll swap you my Extricom 802.11n kit any day for some more Ruckus kit.

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    nicholab's Avatar
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    HP wireless is rubbish I even had the third line support team out!! Ruckus works!

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    @all:

    Anyone had a go with these: Meraki Cloud Managed Wireless LAN as a competitor to Aerohive: Campus Wi-Fi for K-12 and Higher Education Institutions | Aerohive Networks

    With these 2 products it makes the others seem like old news

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    glennda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossman View Post
    @all:

    Anyone had a go with these: Meraki Cloud Managed Wireless LAN as a competitor to Aerohive: Campus Wi-Fi for K-12 and Higher Education Institutions | Aerohive Networks

    With these 2 products it makes the others seem like old news
    Not used the Aerohive but as working for a Meraki Reseller I have to say its brilliant! Although if you are in a school within an LEA it could be trickey to implement without getting the LEA to allow ports outbound (which I can't remember off the top of my head somewhere between 7-8000 i think).

    You can also have Switching, firewalls and mobile devices all configured from one management portal in the cloud. I will however say that what it does tie you into is a yearly fee for the cloud manager as well as upfront costs for the Access points/firewalls/switches.


    EDIT: Meraki also have a Android/Windows app for checking wireless strength around the place which is free (so is the IOS/Android manager).
    But they if you are used to paying for support from ruckus/aerohive/hp etc its similar in cost to that.

    We love it for clients with multiple offices across uk - a member of staff can turn up at another site and there wireless just works. It is also the same for if somebody plugged an access point in at home etc (you can setup so that is bridges a VPN from Access point to network I think)
    Last edited by glennda; 25th September 2012 at 10:23 PM.

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    bossman (25th September 2012)

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    Quote Originally Posted by apeo View Post
    Honestly our Ruckus stuff is great when it works but when it doesnt.. what a pain..

    I've been wondering if blanket wifi coverage (like that offered by Extricom), actually works or not but I still dont understand exactly how it works.
    We have Extricom and it has been the bane of our existence. It doesn't work well and was incredibly expensive. We could have had all new Cisco 3602i access points installed with Clean Air licenses for half the cost of a comparable Extricom install. In our case we needed two 16 port "switches" or "controllers" @ $7,000 USD each and the software to make them work as a single channel cohesive unit was an extra $10,000 USD. Even if we didn't use all the ports, we were still out an incredible amount of money for wasted space. That's $24,000 USD for 32 ports before even getting to any access points. Even with an education discount it was incredibly expensive. And then the access points (or radios) were ~$900 each on top of the controller costs. And this did not include a license for "True ReUse" which severely limits the device density that can be utilized. Maintenance/license costs just to call for support and no additional licenses was twice as expensive as a cloud controller based solution including the annual cloud controller fees. Not to mention the fact that it just doesn't work very well. When using a dense assortment of devices the system fails and drops connections. We have had issues of access points dropping out and not communicating with the controller. Link lights not working on the controller randomly making trouble shooting difficult. Firmware was supposed to fix, but the web gui still shows activity on all ports, even when no access point is plugged in. If an AP goes down, the GUI doesn't really show it at a glance either.

    Their claim that they are "not impacted by co-channel interference" is obviously as flatly false on the face as it is in practice.

    The concept of Extricom is that the switch/controller is essentially a combination of the access point and the controller. The "access points" are not traditional access points. They are "dummy" devices that act as remote radios for the controller. They are essentially radio extensions of the controller and connectivity is fully managed by the controller. All access points are configured to run on the same channel and all "access points" or radio points are simply extensions of the controller. So if you have a mobile VOIP device and you connect to the wireless the idea is that you can walk around your building (assuming you spend $10,000 USD for the cascading software between controllers) and your wireless device doesn't know it is communicating with a new access point. The client never has to re-authenticate with a new AP or change channels. So in theory, if the controller does its job right, you don't lose a packet and you have seamless roaming. This is their "channel blanket."

    The downside is that wireless is essentially a hub network. Only one device within range of other devices can communicate (send OR receive) at the same time. If two transmissions are received simultaneously the frame will be not be accurate and is discarded for retranmission. The wireless protocols have functionality built in so that when devices pick up a transmission it will wait to try to send, but it is far from perfect and becomes a major factor in any wireless deployment. Collisions or "co-channel interference" becomes more prominent in a single channel architecture if left unmitigated. If you have two classrooms of kids within range of each other using the wireless they will all be on the same channel creating more interference. This is a major problem for single-channel architectures so they come up with ways to reduce the interference. Extricom has "True ReUse" which if I understand it correctly simply tries to time the radios on their access points so that they are broadcasting without stepping on each other. I don't believe it does any client side tricks (you'd have to read their whitepapers if they have any). Most of your traffic is downstream traffic from the radios, so if you can time the transmissions between your radios that are in range of each other so that they won't step on each other you can improve your throughput and decrease your collisions. If you run out of capacity on the channel you have to buy a whole new round of access points/controllers and make a whole new wireless system on a different channel.

    If you're looking at a single channel system I would seriously consider Meru over Extricom. They have a more complete product and they are a much larger company. I've called Extricom USA 3 times over 3 days and each time the same receptionist picked up and fowarded me to a phone that rang to voice mail (during normal business hours for the time zone). I left voice mails, but never received a call back. I also left two emails on the contact form of their website of which they never responded to. The fourth call I was transferred to someone who didn't even have the courtesy of putting me on hold while he finished up a personal conversation on his cell phone for the next few minutes, but at least he spoke with me, eventually. The organization seems to be a complete cluster. Years later they still seem to be stuck in "startup" mode.
    Last edited by SuperfluousAdjective; 25th September 2012 at 11:37 PM.

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