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Wired Networks Thread, Desperate for reasons NOT to buy HP Smart switches rather than fully managed in Technical; They really don't sound bad at all; it'll do VLANs, spanning tree, SNMP, auto cross-over, IGMP, and jumbo frames. What ...
  1. #16
    Duke5A's Avatar
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    They really don't sound bad at all; it'll do VLANs, spanning tree, SNMP, auto cross-over, IGMP, and jumbo frames. What more do you really need in a basic IDF cabinet?
    Last edited by Duke5A; 10th May 2013 at 10:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke5A View Post
    They really don't sound bad at all; it'll do VLANs, spanning tree, SNMP, auto cross-over, IGMP, and jumbo frames. What more do you really need in a basic IDF cabinet?
    I feel one of those MSoffice vs OpenOffice, paint vs Photoshop arguments coming along......

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    Thank you so much - that is the re-assurance I wanted to hear. The strange thing for me is that up and til now I was never challenged on what switches I should buy and since all of the others we have had for the last 6 years have been fully managed (apart from two Smart switches I bought to backup our server to a NASbox in another building and which did nothing else) and I spent the last couple of years throwing out NetworX Smart switches which were old and I could not manage with Procurve or even see they were on my network.

    Now when they refurbish a block and I removed a perfectly good 10/100 fully managed switch and I want to buy a 10/100/1000 fully managed switch so that I can actually utilise all the 1Gb ethernet cards in the thin clients, PC's etc I am told I have to buy an inferior Smart switch. I reconfigured every switch last summer when I VLAN's everything and it was so quick to do. Trying to understand how to do it on a Smart one was a lot harder. I am hoping that when all the kids start using BYOD on top of this that the whole lot will freeze and then I can say "I told you so and just sign this order for new Switches". Knowing my luck it will work to start with and they will say we were right. I have already told them this and said you will only see problems once heavy us starts.

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    Basically the building has been refurbed and I took out a working 10/100 fully managed switch which I can fully support using procurve manager. the two smart switches I have are 1800 series and seem slow compared to the fully managed ones. I intended to replace these with 10/100/1000 switches to fully utilise the 1Gb LAN connections on all the new equipment going in. I noticed a performance increase in another building when I did this. I am just worried that they will fall over once BOYD is fully implemented.

    I guess I hate someone forcing me to have just enough spec to do the job rather than having something better. All my colleagues in the county do not use any Smart switches in their networks and therefore it seems like a backward step to me. The VOIP QOS issue is a big one for me and I am pleased to hear that the 1910 range will tick all the boxes. I just hope the consultant does not persuade those with the nod to accept even cheaper Smart switches that will definitely not be up to the job. All this hastle over a few hundred quid. Last year I was virtually forced to improve the wireless network and so I was allowed to spend Ģ20K to improve our Ruckus deployment. By buying decent dual band AP's, a new Wireless LAN controller and putting AP's in each room in the centre on the ceiling beaming down the wireless is now perfect. I wasn't going to scrimp on switches then and I don't want to now. Unfortunately this time I have to accept and do as I am told.

  5. #20

    Ephelyon's Avatar
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    Why are they getting a consultant in?

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    This was not my choice! This is the point - the SLT brought him in to "help". It seemed a good idea to have a consultant that we could call on if there issues with the network which we could not find answers to quickly. However it seems that this is being used as a money saving exercise. He says these will "do the job". Well, a Robin Reliant will get me to work but when I need to take more things with me or over take in a hurry I would rather have a more powerful car with lots of storage.

    I will being pushing to ensure they buy the 1910 series as someone said earlier because this will help with my VOIP phones. I have one problem though. We do indeed use RIP on our Core Switch and if these don't support RIP then I don't know what problems this may cause. Maybe none. We had an HP Gold Partner in two years ago to install a new Core Switch and he did the configuration and did explain why we should use RIP at the time. I still think it is just bad advice to put a Small Business level switch in an enterprise network - totally false economy when we need the best network we can as we move forward.

    It maybe that because I want to move to a 10Gb backbone in the next few years they don't want to spend more on the switches when they will have to replace them in the future

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    why not compromise on 10/100 switches?
    HP 3600SI (JG305A) is a fully managed switch at less than Ģ700 which will be more than enough for your thin clients. It has four 1Gb/s ports. I use 2 for access points and 2 for uplinks. the spec isn't bad at all HP 3600 SI Switch Series data sheet - US English (Data sheet/4AA3-0722ENW.pdf)
    Last edited by CyberNerd; 11th May 2013 at 09:17 AM.

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    I'm pretty sure the 1910's are static routing only. But you can probably change to do most of your routing on the core. I don't think you need dynamic routing on a network of this size, but obviously I don't know your network topology. I wouldn't try to do routing on a 1910 except in an emergency. I don't think its spec'ed to do more than basic routing.

    I really wouldn't bother putting in 1810s given the price point of a 1910.

    Are you doing a full refresh, or just replacing/adding a few switches?

  9. Thanks to Chris_Cook from:

    Dantech (11th May 2013)

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    Hi Chris

    Thanks for the reply. You are right they are stati routing only. The routing is done on the Core. We just have one Core Switch - an HP 5406Zl. This has RIP commands set in the config. I just wondered if the 1910 will not respond to this? I assume all traffic on VLAN's on this switch will just go back to the Core to get to the internet so maybe this is irrelevant.

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    In that case I might as well put the old switch back in! No cost! However if all my LAN cards are 1Gb it makes sense that the switch is too.

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    So you want 1Gb to the desktop? It's not worth it. Go back to 100mb to the desktop, you're just putting more stress on your network for tiny, mostly unnoticable gains in end user performance.

    The only users i could ever imagine actually noticing a difference would be media users working with big videos, but again they'll be stressing your storage alot with the extra bandwidth you're giving them. Not worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbios View Post
    So you want 1Gb to the desktop? It's not worth it. Go back to 100mb to the desktop, you're just putting more stress on your network for tiny, mostly unnoticable gains in end user performance.
    For the cost of Gb to the desktop it's not worth doing 100Mb. 100Mb is pretty slow these days, even for client devices. You can certainly tell in many scenarios.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMcCoy View Post
    For the cost of Gb to the desktop it's not worth doing 100Mb. 100Mb is pretty slow these days, even for client devices. You can certainly tell in many scenarios.
    It entirely depends on the setup. 1GB is certainly worth it with a smallish network, but when things get bigger you start needing 10Gb links to servers and backbones. 100Mb can still work well. Cutting the bandwidth for the clients means there is more bandwidth for uplinks and servers. Routing at the edge can help here, but again you then need decent managed switches. The OP is also using thin clients. There's pretty much no gain on using 1Gb on thin clients, a better approach would be to have a managed 100mb/s switch and use QoS to prioritise the ica/rdp traffic.

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    mrbios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMcCoy View Post
    For the cost of Gb to the desktop it's not worth doing 100Mb. 100Mb is pretty slow these days, even for client devices. You can certainly tell in many scenarios.
    We'll have to agree to disagree there then, personally i can't see why teachers and students have need for anything more than 100mb, providing 1Gb is just driving up costs not only of the switches required on the edge but also the cost of the infrastructure to support it, and that's where it gets expensive!

    I mean we've got photography students working with huge pictures in photoshop, media students working in adobe premiere pro cs6 and there has never been a need to even consider 1Gb to the desktop for those uses and i can't imagine many tasks that would be any more intensive than that. I imagine some schools may consider it if they have a disgustingly inefficient roaming profile setup but then thats more a failing of implementation than the need to chuck more speed at it. By all means feel free to inform of other areas that may need it though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by psydii View Post
    That said if you really really want to get the the command line, there is a secret incantation possible to get yourself the access you want.
    /devil's_advocate
    Itīs not secret at all

    _cmdline-mode on
    Password is: 512900

    Talking about the V1910 again. Itīs a relabeled 3Com 2928/2952 switch which is based upon H3C S5120-SI. They share the same firmware, but have different internal IDs (so with V1910 you do not have e.g. IRF stacking capabilities as on the H3C S5120-SI) But HP sells the HP A5120-SI (== H3C S5120-SI) for a much higher price. So for the price the HP V1910 is a bargain.
    And of course it does have limitations, e.g. the ARP table is limited to 256 entries:

    http://h30499.www3.hp.com/hpeb/attac...itches2011.xls
    http://h30499.www3.hp.com/hpeb/attac...itches2012.xls
    Last edited by snoerre; 11th May 2013 at 08:23 PM.

  17. Thanks to snoerre from:

    Dantech (12th May 2013)

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