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Wired Networks Thread, New network build in Technical; Originally Posted by Gaz Wifi is on the list^^ IP phone system, I'm not too sure about but its always ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    Wifi is on the list^^
    IP phone system, I'm not too sure about but its always nice to play with new tech isn't it? If the switch powering the IP phones dies do we lose the phones?
    Office computers will be laptops but that is assumed, they will run off the wifi network with ethernet in the room as backup in case/when the wifi plays up.
    Forgive my ignorance but whats BMS?
    BMS = Building Management System. Automated/clever systems for managing site heating, power, etc. If they're using that, they'll want it networked. Even if they don't know it yet.

  2. Thanks to Roberto from:

    Gaz (25th February 2013)

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    A quick brain dump, excluding things already mentioned when I started writing this.

    I'm not really considering how much it would cost. Simply what you ought to have to be able to provide a 99.9% SLA on your network (power outages excepted), and minimising future expansion costs.


    Server Room/Main Comms Room
    At least 4x 16Amp circuits to you main comms/server room.
    Separate AirCon Circuits.
    At least 2 Aircon Units (configured to auto start after a powerfailure) large enough to cool the room when only one is running. Specifiy required temperature at device air intake vents (e.g. 19C).
    Nothing else on the circuits.
    Depending on the topology of the new network, between two and four 42U racks , with sufficient space to walk around them.
    Lights out Management for your PDU's Servers and Core Switches.
    Virtualised Servers, with shared storage, no host running at more than 2/3 capacity.



    Around the site:
    Properly designed cable routes. for both copper and fibre. At least 8 Core 10GbE rated Fibre to the core.
    Documentation.
    10GBe switch ports from secondary Cabs to Core.
    Link secondary comms rooms in pairs by alternative routes of fibre, to provide a backup path to your main comms room in the event of a fibre break or switch failure. At least 4 Core 10Gbe Rated.
    2x LACP 1Gbe switch ports for the alternative routes.

    Depending on the network topology (i.e. switch density per location) you may also need aircon in each comms room.
    UPS for each comms room, especially if you are going wireless or voip in a big way.

    Four data points in each classroom at high level. (two WAPs, projector, ATV or similar) Four to Six data points at the teacher desk position. This might seem overkill, but it allows you to repurpose two into uplinks for a switch if you ever want to convert the room to ICT suite.

    Lots of data points in the front office. Lots of Data points for interfacing with CCTV and Access Control. Floor mounted points for Cashless Catering. Data Points for Cashless Catering recharge stations.

    Minimum 1.5 Power sockets per Data Point.
    Minimum 3 Data Points per user (office space)
    Minimum 36 Data Points for a 30 Seat ICT Suite. (plus the allocation for a standard classroom)

    Assuming VOIP and Wifi, and potentially CCTV: Power over Ethernet. 802.11at. Ideally be able to provide 30W per port. Plan for 3 POE ports per classroom + 1 port per department, + 1 port per administrative member of staff + Number of CCTV Cameras +10%. Midspan is usually more cost effective than actual PoE switches. Make sure they fully support 1GbE devices.


    Finally be warey of 'next generation wifi'. I got badly burned by this. If the build is likely to be 18-2yrs+ after the 'next generation' is ratified then it is probably a safe bet. Avoid deploying first generation silicon at all costs, unles you can live with stuff not working right. I've got a wonderful Meru network now, but my initial 2009 (vendor name withheld) 11n experience was horrific.


    Things you can quickly scale back when they laugh at the costs of the above:
    the redudant fibre links.
    InterSwitch Fibre links - you don't NEED fibre between switches on the same floor/phase/building.
    Reduce the PoE Provision.
    Reduce the clasroom provision.
    Reduce the UPS provision to core only, with uptime reduced to be sufficient to cover a clean shutdown in the event of power loss.
    Reduce the AC cover in the rooms to one.
    Remove Lights Out management.
    Single cicuit for the coms room.
    Be less fussy about what else is on the power circuit that feed the comms rooms and suites.
    Reduce from 10Gbe ports to 2x GbE LACP trunks for you links from core to secondary comms cabs.
    2 VM hosts rather than 3
    Last edited by psydii; 25th February 2013 at 04:02 PM.

  4. Thanks to psydii from:

    Gaz (25th February 2013)

  5. #18
    Gaz
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    Quote Originally Posted by twin--turbo View Post
    Interactive whiteboards are way out of date, don't buy any unless an absolute idea of how they are going to aid T&L is put forward.


    I've been asked what we would need if we were to move site into a new building, what IT equipment would be needed. The building isn't yet constructed so treat it as if we have free reign.

    So far i've put down.

    >>Server rack with sufficient power for all appliances such as servers, ups, switches and routers.
    1000 Deep
    Agreed

    >>Modular Layer3 core switch
    Make sure it's got some redundancy for failures.
    Agreed

    >>Firewall and content filter
    Plenty of options from free to ££££
    Agreed

    >>Rack mounted servers with storage array RAID6
    Don't go for 1U, stick with 2U.
    Agreed Is 4U ok too? we'll probably only require 1

    >>UPS Power supplies
    Make sure the load is distruibuted correctly and that they are network connected.
    Agreed, It will be split evenly over the network equipment

    >>Air conditioned room
    Specify N+1 for the capacity required.
    Agreed


    >>Ethernet cabling to latest spec
    Don't bother with CAT7
    Didn't even know there was a CAT7 its just that this isn't going to happen for another 2 years so its whatever the best/cost effective

    >>Ethernet sockets in computer rooms
    yep make sure there is enough physical room for the students, use cantaliver benches to remove legs from the front edge.
    Agreed

    >>Workstation grade PC’s to run CAD/CAM software
    Workstations are very expensive, what CAD are you using
    Soildworks, Camworks, Inventer and Catia

    >>Wifi Network – Next generation specification
    Meru,Rukus,Meraki... get vendors in to show you the advantages.
    Agreed

    >>Interactive whiteboards
    Interactive whiteboards are way out of date, don't buy any unless an absolute idea of how they are going to aid T&L is put forward.
    Really? We were using whiteboard and marker pens but were kinda forced to use Promethean boards by the powers that be we were told we needed to engage the students more, I'm just the techie who am I to disagree?

    >>Printers in computer rooms
    Reduce the number, make it more difficult to print, reduce print.
    There will only be 3 printers for the computer rooms plus a photocopier for central printing

    >>Office for IT staff for network monitoring with multidisplay computers.
    Cry....
    A man can dream damn it lol...

    >>Backup NAS drive in separate room
    Seperate building or tapes off site.
    Agreed

    >>Hi-speed internet (fibre)
    Don't go for a consumer service as the upload is not good.
    Agreed

    >>Fibre backbone for LAN
    Diverse routed if you can.
    Would that require 2 cables to the switch?

    >>Gigabit switches for computer rooms with wall mounted cabinets
    Avoid this if you can, central distro rooms preferable.
    Why?
    >>is there anything missing???

    Probably lots.
    Yep its a balance of overkill and getting the stuff to just get the job done, this is a building that hasn't even been built yet so it can be planned accordingly

    Rob
    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twin--turbo View Post
    Office computers should be computers not laptops. Or should have DOCK's with correct Monitor mountings, Keybaord, Mouse Etc..
    Definately. We're now 70% wireless laptop for admin staff computers and support them with docks, screens etc at their primary desk. Works great. The wired infrastructre for most users supports the WAPs, printers and the legacy phones. I'd still flood wire the place though given a chance, just in case BYOD and 11ac turn out to be a disaster.

  7. Thanks to psydii from:

    Gaz (25th February 2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by psydii View Post
    Definately. We're now 70% wireless laptop for admin staff computers and support them with docks, screens etc at their primary desk. Works great. The wired infrastructre for most users supports the WAPs, printers and the legacy phones. I'd still flood wire the place though given a chance, just in case BYOD and 11ac turn out to be a disaster.
    I'll change it to desktops then. I am making a provision for BYOD. I just though laptops would be a better solution as most of them use their personal ones now anyway but they are off the domain.

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    twin--turbo (25th February 2013)

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    TO expand on the three nines.... ignoring Office 365/Google Apps for the moment (which you shouldn't when planning a new build)...

    Using a product like VEEAM Enterprise, and keeping your day to day VM Hosts with 30% overhead, allows you to model changes to replicas of production servers in a sandboxed environment without impacting production, reducing the chances of 'maintenence errors' and increasing the speed at which you can reliably implement change. You should also implement Exchange DAG and SQL and Fileserver Clusters and ensure that any turnkey products are Virtualised to minimise impact of hardware failures, and bring server patching in to your daily tasks rather than an out of hours function.

    Also switch management tools: Great for configuration and patch management. A massive time saver, and great for detecting problems that you'd otherwise miss. If you go cheap with your switches (say the HPv 1910 series) rather than high spec'd cisco or procurve beasts you can use a fraction of the money saved to get HP IMC. The v1910 wouldn't do for the core of this network......
    Last edited by psydii; 25th February 2013 at 05:00 PM.

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    .... However (and I'm just riffing now).....


    If you were to go big on Office 365/Google Apps and you had a RBC Broadband connection you might be able to ditch all the local servers, keep the wired and wireless infrastructure, but use the v1910 across the whole site (it supports VLANs, Static Routing, ACLs and QoS... what more do you really need?). With IMC to manage it you'd be able to deliver most of the services in my initial post in this thread at a fraction of the cost. You ought to double up on your WAN link though.

    Likely your management's approach will be dictated by the Capital/Revenue split for the project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto View Post
    BMS = Building Management System. Automated/clever systems for managing site heating, power, etc. If they're using that, they'll want it networked. Even if they don't know it yet.
    Rofl, I nearly spat my beer out...

    Automated, Clever... Having experienced a few BMS i can't see "automated and clever" being applicable as an AND

    Rob

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    There are many better ways to engage children than using a Int-Act-whiteboard, 90% get used as a projection screen, 9% as a pointing tool, 1% for something interesting.

    Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    I'll change it to desktops then. I am making a provision for BYOD. I just though laptops would be a better solution as most of them use their personal ones now anyway but they are off the domain.
    You have to seriously consider H&S of your staff, allowing them to use an unsuitable device all day could lead to injury and despite their wish to use their laptop there is still a responsibility as the employer to ensure the H&S of that staff member. If you provide the correct facility and they choose not to use it then that is a different matter.

    Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by twin--turbo View Post
    Rofl, I nearly spat my beer out...

    Automated, Clever... Having experienced a few BMS i can't see "automated and clever" being applicable as an AND

    Rob
    Oh no. Ours is very clever. It knows the exact precise time to fall over all the time in order to fsck us up in the most effective way possible. It knows what it's doing for sure.

  16. #27

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    One strange thing that seems weird but well worth it is actually look at the Electrical Dado they are using and specify that yourselves. For example our refurbishment has some lovely Marshall Tufflex dado in it very nice at a price of heading towards £100 a length however its cured like a C shape when looked at in profile, as a result the In-Wall amps stick out and don't fit correctly and thus have to either be sealed around or you have to mount a slim surface patress to the dado backbox with the rear cut out of it to then secure it fully which looks just silly.

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    We've got that fancy three compartment stuff...but new guidelines mean we've got those coloured fillets around sockets to highlight them. On a plus, the compartments have plenty of scope to expand in future and there's lots of it around the rooms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheScarfedOne View Post
    We've got that fancy three compartment stuff...but new guidelines mean we've got those coloured fillets around sockets to highlight them. On a plus, the compartments have plenty of scope to expand in future and there's lots of it around the rooms.
    Contrasting colours is part of the regulations so our sockets are grey, well bar the data outlets which annoyed the architects as Excel don't make grey outlets haha and as that was my spec they had to adhere to it

    When I spec dado trunking I use REHAU COMPACT Data now as its really nice and not too expensive and Rehau seem to know how to make a good product that just works They have good solutions for the contrasting colours setup as well with contrasting top so you can use white sockets and outlets

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    Gaz
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    It appears there is more to this than I bargained for, but all this info is useful even the criticism.

    Its sounding like this could be a shared building so BMS will be out of the window as that would be done by the site owner, so would things like trunking.
    I would get to choose the core of the networking gizmos that would be needed such as power, switches, ups, routers, cabling, racks, servers, etc etc
    @twin--turbo can you expand on this. Why is it perfereable?
    >>Gigabit switches for computer rooms with wall mounted cabinets
    Avoid this if you can, central distro rooms preferable.

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