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Wired Networks Thread, Infrastructure in Technical; Hi all, Advice,recommendations and needed here please. I have already worked out more or less what we need just throw ...
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    MrPstv's Avatar
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    Infrastructure

    Hi all,

    Advice,recommendations and needed here please.

    I have already worked out more or less what we need just throw in some ideas please.

    We have More than 200 wireless devices.

    100-130 desktop wired devices.

    Scenario:
    Old building at some point will be gutted completely of anything I.T. related from cabs to cables.
    Old building will then have extensive building works and extensions.
    5 buildings in total of which only one will have works done.

    Locations of servers has come up as a query.
    I have stated as an option that the 5 servers would ideally live central on the site and all fibres will branch out from that point.
    How many data points?
    How many dedicated power sockets?
    Any regulations that come with this?


    Cab and cabling:
    Low smoke cat ?
    Cab size depth?
    Switch backbone?
    Any regulations here?

    Classrooms:KS1 /Nursery
    How many data points?
    Interactive options?

    What are the key points i should be focusing on?
    Any info would be appreciated.

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    supawat1's Avatar
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    I would recommend you read this document from EIS Kent website http://www.eiskent.co.uk/UserFiles/f...esignGuide.pdf

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    I have just rewired our school.
    First point to consider is your network topology. My concern was that once the wires were in adding more would be difficult so I put switch cabinet in local classrooms and connected them back to two server rooms with fibre.
    The local connections were then made in surface mounted dado rail using Cat 6A (10GbE capable) copper. The builders quoted us 70K for 400 Cat5e points (600 kids in 24 classrooms, 10 points per room, two IT suites and various admin library etc) and I had the whole lot done in 6A and OM3 fibre for 32K (450 points 18 cabinets 2 server rooms, all connected by fibre, note price didn't include containment or dado) .
    The thinking is that the Dado allows additional sockets to be easy to install without major disruption and that the structured cabling will last a good length of time ( hopefully 10Gb/s will keep us going for 10 yrs at least. Initial switching has a 10Gb back bone via two layer 3 switches one in each of two server rooms and 1gb/s at the edges in 24 or 48 port Gb switches. DIsadvantages are that POE has to be done locally ( as fibre doesnt conduct power) and buying lots of small POE switches is expensive especally when they only run an access point and a phone. I used DLink as they gave me a great price and the kit is fine. have since seen a lot of HP kit for similar prices. For wireless I went with Aerohive as my network was in pieces for over a yr and I could still keep everyone connected by meshing the APs via the web hive. Couldn't do that with a stand alone controller once the wires were gone so that was my first purchase.
    Good to keep server on an outside wall for cooling. I used filtered ambient air pushed into server room to keep out dust and a portable AC unit that is used when the temp gets over 20C and this saves the expense and pwer required to run AC Plus AC is a major poinnt of failure if you are reliant on it. I only have two hosts running VM ware + SAN and a north facing room so has been fine.

    I had a big argument to get Cat 6a with many arguments about bend radius but in went into 100mm 3 channel dado without a problem and the installers cheerfully bent it well past the suggested radius anyway. The council wanted to go with the builders Cat 5e offering but my winning argument was 'How does paying twice as much for 10% of the speed represent best value' and they ended up getting the builder to take on my supplier as contractor but it wasnt easy!

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    MrPstv's Avatar
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    @sparker

    How big is your school, what key stage are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamzah View Post
    @sparker

    How big is your school, what key stage are you?
    Primary Keystage 1/2 plus nursery with 600 pupils and 100 staff

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    john's Avatar
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    I would be saying OM3 fibre as a minimum and CAT6 cabling.

    Dado trunking for all containment as has been said already makes life 100x easier when you need an extra power or data point in 6 months time

    Cabinets should be in rooms away from classrooms and corridors as people will complain of the noise of switches or use them as target practice.

    Cabinets should be proper 19" racks and have at least 1/2 the capacity free once full from this phase of building. Ensure you get a 6 way PDU in the rack as part of the spec on a separate spur so that someone plugging a dodgy kettle in doesn't take you LAN down.

    Always do more points than you think, include in that if you have suspended ceilings put at least a quad above the ceiling as structured cabling can be used for everything and anything such as door access, projector signal cabling, audio cabling, APs etc.... I have a quad in the ceiling for all my rooms and in some of them 3 out of the 4 are used already and we have only just moved back into those rooms from September! (Projector VGA, Projector Management and Wifi AP all over the C6 links) so when you think you have enough you always need more!

    Ensure you get full test results on Paper and on CD from the testing and ensure its done correctly with a proper test meter not some cheap CPC light testing tool (great for a simple is it bust or not) but you need them to be checked for loss and other stats to guarantee that the higher data speeds will work successfully on it

    There are a number of members on here that have been part of refurbishment / building projects including myself, @Soulfish and others so shout up if / when you need more help

  7. Thanks to john from:

    MrPstv (29th January 2013)

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    MrPstv's Avatar
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    Another query this time regarding the regulations,i cant seem to find much!
    i am obviously not looking in the correct places.

    Workspace: this is something that has surfaced,any recommendations regarding this?

    Will be looking at this project from a point of a blank canvas, so all ideas and pointers are welcome.

    I will need as much information as possible please.

    Thanks for the info already shared.

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    Building regs are best left to builders, your local council should have recomendations for a 'typical 'classroom.
    Our ICT team came up with a standard classroom with 7 PCs, one for IWB and 6 for children to use.
    I put two highlevel network points in each room as mentioned by John for APs and CCTV, IWB etc . I put mine in the descender Dado rail mostly as it kept it neat and allowed for easy futre changes, which as John indicated, began before the project was complete.
    Bear in mind that what you put in will have a design life expectancy so ask what it is - I was advised that our ws 25years hence the edge cabinets which were mostly placed in classroom store cupboards ( as John suggests) when available although using fanless switches removes noise it is still easier to go into a cupboard to work than to distract and entire class with you network antics.

    I ran 8 core 0M3 and 12 core connecting my two sites but am mostly using just one core but it means that I can ramp up to 4GB/switch whilst I am waiting for 10Gb/s kit to get affordable and then potentially use 40GB/ switch.
    Sounds like overkill but Moores law will have its way!
    Desk height wasanother consideration and will depend on the children height so look at the furniture used by the kids and use that as a guide.
    Make sure that walls for IWBs are reinforced floor to ceiling as ours werestill wobbly even with double layered ply on top of the metal studs and one genius very carefully reinforced just the area of the board which caused a rebuild when I tried to hang a very heavy UST projector on it!
    I ask teachers what they wanted and then overuled where appropriate as one told me she didnt want any network points but I insisted and now she has used all of them!.
    Get quotes from many sources and compare them with any that you are being given by builders council etc and if they are high then challenge them! Find out the budget for IT and find out what that includes. I had to get switch gear on my budget but cabinet and patch panels were build, but then I forgot about patch cables and 1000 patch cables add up!
    Make sure you get enough time/support for commisioning, my build program handed my server rooms to me on the friday before school began on wed which was crazy especially as the amount of dust meant I couldn't even switch the servers on for two days - (also didnt have a door). All in all quite an experience but very satisfying! Any specific qs just ask. How big is your school and what KS?

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    ive got more than 200 wireless devices.

    around 50 desktop wired devices.

    I started in my current position 3 months again and inherited a mess from my predecessor, its a primary school, Nursery to year 6. they have 100MB LAN, Cat5 cables going into switches without being terminated at a patch panel, individual APs (no wireless controller). 5 port hubs all over the place instead of getting data points put in. Ive just got a data company in to get these points sorted. None of my predecessors tidied the cabs, theres no documentation or labeling. ive now got to trace where the uplinks to the other cabs are patched and tidy the cabs.

    im moving to 1Gig backbone to increase overall speed and im ripping out my WIFI and getting a Ruckus wireless system put in, im getting HP Procurve 1910 gbit switches which are worth looking at as they come with Lifetime warrenty. i agree with the above, Cat6A is the way forward especially if you are gutting building, even if you dont go to 10Gig right now, its there when you want to in the future.

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    Neil-Millgate's Avatar
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    What John ^^ said pretty much sums up my experiances. Although that is just from reading the site reports/surveys and sourcing the kit required. If you want to PM me your details @Hamzah, I can have one of our engineers with school specifiaction/install experience to give you a call to bounce ideas around.

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