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Wired Networks Thread, 10gbe Backbone in Technical; How many on here have 10gbe network backbones in their schools? I have been given some money to improve the ...
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    fiza's Avatar
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    10gbe Backbone

    How many on here have 10gbe network backbones in their schools?
    I have been given some money to improve the infrastructure in School. We have 2 links which are currently 10gbe and the rest are 1gb. The head is planning on introducing more laptops (250 in total) or chromebooks (we have a trial of chromebooks coming up). Also looking at byod via our Ruckus wireless.
    To future proof is it worth going 10gbe across the school? We may not use the capacity now but as there is money available is it worth it?

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    Snuffkins's Avatar
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    We've had a 10gbe backbone here for about 5 years now, along with all of our servers having 10gbe links. It's significantly cheaper than it was back when we did it. It depends if you think that money could be better spent elsewhere and whether you think you're current configuration would be suitable for the expansion you have planned and what you have planned in the future following that.

    I would say yes it's worth spending the money to upgrade if you have ageing or low end hardware (unmanaged or smart switches, even old managed switches with low fabric speed). I would think that with the increase in media creation across the board in schools it probably would be worth going to at least a 10gbe backbone for the future, depending on the funding available. It's an investment that could last you a decade or more if you get the right equipment and you keep up with the warranties etc. The equipment we have is still going strong and although it was well over 6 figures when we did it, if you average that out it's not a massive spend over the long term. I've seen enough network upgrades that have been done and then needed to be re-done inside of 12 months, so it's always worth spending the money for quality.

    I'm guessing you've already planned the Ruckus wireless side of things to cope with the extra demand etc. The only thing i would say is whatever hardware you get, if you haven't already been trained with it and whether or not you intend for the configuration/support to be by a third party i would include the vendor specific training in the upgrade cost. It seems to be something that gets missed out a lot and it can be incredibly useful.

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    fiza (25th January 2013)

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    twin--turbo's Avatar
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    Been on our 10Gb for 2 years, not sure it makes much difference for us as we are mostly VDI so most heavy traffic stays inside our BladeCentre.

    Rob

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    m25man's Avatar
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    The price differential is eroding fast and vendors like Netgear offering 10Gbe interfaces on kit that costs a 1Gigbit price are forcing their competetors to do the same.
    The chances are you wont come close to needing it yet but if you have to upgrade kit soon why not try.
    10GBe HBA's are cheaper than ever and using DAC cables to get your servers talking to your Backup targets alone could shrink your backup windows significantly, thats always a good place to start even if the rest of the LAN is going to take a while to catch up.
    Something like this XSM7224S# will set you back Ģ5k and that takes a lot of selling to the SLT that its worth it.

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    Sylv3r's Avatar
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    We will probably look to upgrade to 10GBe backbone this summer, whether that is across the site in one go or phased over 2 years.

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    Something changed here. PURPLE is everywhere!!!

    Ok, back to topic. We have no 10Gbe backbone, but 1Gbe links with LACP running, because we have enough fibers and most of our core hardware doesnīt have any SFP+ slots. 10Gbe was once damn expensive some years ago.

    Most of our traffic is within the datacenter. How many users do you have in total? I cannot believe those 250? can make such traffic...
    But nowadays, well each cheapish hardware does have SFP+ slots.

    Donīt look at the hardware specs. Of course the hardware of XSM7224S is looking well, but when did it receive the last software update, patches? What about real software upgrades? Have you ever thought about something like virtual routing instances?

    Go for strong software support and avoid HP with its Comware OS. Yes, I was once really glad to got those switches in a public tender, but now, well, let me put it like this: If you need a bugfix you will be kind of doomed. And those switches have some weired bugs noone seems to be interested fixing them...
    Last edited by snoerre; 25th January 2013 at 07:51 PM.

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    am looking at doing this but havent got cash to replace some switches yet does anyone know if we had 10gb fibre put in would we still be able to use 1gb sfp fibres over that.. e.g would the cable be backwards compatable till we upgrade the switches?

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    m25man's Avatar
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    OM3 is fully backward compatible and in most cases its all that gets installed nowadays.
    OM2 will carry 10GBe as well for short distances, but before we get carried away there is plenty of scope for 10GBe at the top of the rack and in the server farm long before we reach the far flung corners of the campus.

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    victory2012 (25th January 2013)

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    Thanks for that im clueless when it comes to the fibre so thats very very helpful , do you use the same fibre cables but just a sfp+ module? or are there special cables you need to buy? im currently using LC - ST fibre cables..

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    Hawes29's Avatar
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    We upgraded our backbone last year to 20GB using 2 sets of fibre. We are hoping to have all our edge switches on 10GB within the next 2-3 years. I would agree with Snuffkins about the use media creation across the school.

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    m25man's Avatar
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    To minimise insertion losses you should use the same grade patch cables, OM3 cable = OM3 patch cables, OM2 etc etc.
    The connector type is irrelevant but as LC is the standard fitting for sfp and sfp+ it makes more sense to standardise throughout and use LC for everything.
    If your using LC-ST (ST are the twist on BNC type) the chances are the bearer is 62.5/125 not 50/125
    You need to be very careful with these combinations as each mis-matched joint is a 3db loss which is the equivalent of about half the TX power of your SFP
    So if your SR SFP module was capable of 330m at 850nm a mis-matched patch lead will reduce the effective reach to 150m a second incorrect patch 70m or less...
    Add to this a few dirty fingers and a bit of dust a few tight bend radiuses and its game over, lights out.

    I left a handy PDF here Networking Fiber Optics

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    victory2012 (25th January 2013)

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    m23Man Thank you very much for that , it is most helpful, i am indeed using 62.5/125 cables and to be honest i have never known that is a problem! though it could explain some things on our network !

    i have just found i can buy 50/125 LC-ST as these are available am going to look into replacing my cables with these which should be the first step, any new runs i have installed i will get the LC fitting as this makes sense.

    thanks again

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    m25man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victory2012 View Post
    m23Man Thank you very much for that , it is most helpful, i am indeed using 62.5/125 cables and to be honest i have never known that is a problem! though it could explain some things on our network !

    i have just found i can buy 50/125 LC-ST as these are available am going to look into replacing my cables with these which should be the first step, any new runs i have installed i will get the LC fitting as this makes sense.

    thanks again
    I will re-state that if your bearers are 62.5/125 (OM1) you need 62.5/125 (OM1)patch cords. Do not use 50/125 (OM2) patch cables on 62.5/125 (OM1) cabling.
    It all needs to match end to end.

    This is not a definitive guide, but over the years Fibre patch cable suppliers have tended to follow the following code, OM1 = Grey, OM2 = Orange, OM3 = Turquoise and Single Mode = Yellow.
    Always verify by checking the cable for its correct grade printed on the outer cladding never assume anything as assumption is the mother of all C@*K-UPS.
    Last edited by m25man; 25th January 2013 at 10:05 PM.

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