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Windows Thread, Wireless roaming throughout the school in Technical; ...
  1. #16
    ahuxham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Ok, as you've dug this back up, I will reply. Your comment regarding 'cheap' is nonsense! Looking for IAPP 11.r/11.i on cheap models is a no go as far as I can find. D-Link's cheap models don't seem to have it, neither do Belkin's cheap models, etc... Your claims seem to indicate that the technology you talk of comes in all cheap AP's which is simply untrue.

    The cheapest model I can find is that linksys one, which comes in at £100 each. It doesn't feature any fancy technologies such as beam forming, wireless N etc... It won't be able to handle anywhere near as many clients as a managed solution either. Add in the fact that the power levels and channels in any environment which will end up with dense computer use (pretty much guaranteed in a school) would be a pain to set up so their was no interference and good coverage.

    So, it doesn't work out very cheap to me! The suggestions I made are based on real-world, in school use cases which appear again and again. Investing in an unmanaged solution today would be a poor decision - as in a short time, the demands of the system will outstrip its capabilities to support them. I've seen it happen in loads of schools. One school paid for an unmanaged system consisting of Buffalo AP's - to cover the whole site, they bought about 30 of them. This was fine for the 40 or so teacher laptops. But within a year and a bit, the number of wireless devices had tripled, the number of dense clusters of devices had increased and rendered the system worthless.

    So, why advise someone to invest in something that is in no way future proof?
    Why advise someone to invest in something that they cannot even afford. Re-read the thread. n (Defiantly the first line of the thread)

    I highly doubt your real world testing actually works as previously stated in this thread.

    How many laptops in your school, or perhaps his school are 802.11 N compatible for a start.

    And you fail at real life references as well 30 AP's supporting 40 laptops and then failing to support 120, thats "four" devices per access point. We have 30 in a classroom with a single £60 access point just trundling away.

    Perhaps I'd class that as p*** poor planning and incompetent staff.

    Thanks for your time, and enjoy your dinner.
    Last edited by witch; 20th March 2010 at 11:02 PM.

  2. #17

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahuxham View Post
    Why advise someone to invest in something that they cannot even afford. Re-read the thread. n (Defiantly the first line of the thread)
    £2k for a managed solution is not a lot of money, compared to around half that for an unmanaged one that could handle nowhere near the traffic and would be nowhere near as future proofed.

    I highly doubt your real world testing actually works as previously stated in this thread.
    Doubt away, that's your choice. I'll continue to know what I know.

    How many laptops in your school, or perhaps his school are 802.11 N compatible for a start.
    Not many yet. But as new models all support N (such as the last dozen we bought, and the next dozen we're going to buy), a system that supports future technologies is probably a good one don't you think? Becta advise schools to use Cat6 cable to the client now for new installs. 802.11n is the equivalent in wireless tech...

    And you fail at real life references as well 30 AP's supporting 40 laptops and then failing to support 120, thats "four" devices per access point.
    Please don't be so silly. You know full well how wireless solutions end up being used. Some areas with far higher client counts than others. For example, covering a sports hall, or ensuring playgrounds are covered - doesn't help most of the daily use but adds to the AP count.

    We have 30 in a classroom with a single £60 access point just trundling away..
    Trundling must be the word! There was a document posted on here recently, comparing different wireless solutions - they showed quite well the different capabilities of different solutions.

    I'd love you to show me an unmanaged wireless access point (in a/b/g) that can handle 30 clients reliably. 54Mbps between 30 clients. 1.8Mbps each, minus overheads/collisions. Say those overheads are 0.3Mbps equivalent, that leaves 1.5Mbps. However, that 0.3Mbps deduction is unrealistic, as collisions are the main problem on AP's.

    Using a D-Link DWL-2100AP as an example (a bog standard, cheap, unmanaged, AP I hope you'll agree), we managed to get a total of 9 laptops logging on to it within a reasonable time - adding more ended up with the entire lot talking a huge amount of time (I'm talking 10 minutes for 10 laptops to log in and receive their 10MB mandatory profile). This problem was the exact reason why our school's bursar was so hesitant to invest in any form of wireless system, as they'd been sold a pup by a previous supplier when they'd stated a single 54Mbps AP could support 16 laptops in one go.

    Investing in 2 trolley's of laptops because you expect your wireless system to handle it, then finding it can't is not something schools should be doing...

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    We have 30 in a classroom with a single £60 access point just trundling away.
    I'm going to call on that one too. How so? I get around a bit and I've yet to see anyone's cheap unmanaged wireless system work ok with > 10 Windows domain clients per AP.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    I'm going to call on that one too. How so? I get around a bit and I've yet to see anyone's cheap unmanaged wireless system work ok with > 10 Windows domain clients per AP.
    I had 16 running on a 3Com unmanaged and it worked okay. It was like this for a couple of years too.

  5. #20

    nephilim's Avatar
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    Most I have had working on an unmanaged AP (Cisco) was 18, after that the AP failed.

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