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Windows Thread, Microsoft licensing: advice needed please. in Technical; Originally Posted by DMcCoy WITH OS surely? The issue is that an VL scheme at the moment isn't going to ...
  1. #16
    Mr.Ben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMcCoy View Post
    WITH OS surely?

    The issue is that an VL scheme at the moment isn't going to cover a machine without OS. If they aew self built machines then I guess you could still get OEM windows licenses, if they aren't then FPP may be the only legitimate way (and very expensive too). Office and the server products would be fine under VL, just not desktop OS.
    What I've done is basically purchased 120 XP Licences outright on select VL. That's the total amount of machines that I have in the School. When one machine is replaced, I don't need to buy OEM licensing with the machines, It's only coming to fruition now, over the last year we have had to replace 40 machines, and I've saved by not having to get OEM Licensing.

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    Mr.Ben's Avatar
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    CtrlAltDelete,

    As far as I know, the Subscription model only has a 'Desktop' option that includes Client O/S and Office. You can't separate them :-(

    My ethic for my Network is that every user should see excatly the same wherever they log in, and that stabilty of the OS and software is paramount to staff actually using it. If I change things every 18 months Staff are going to be put off of IT. The change to W7 (in the summer) is going to create a huge need for Staff training as most of them have only ever used XP.

    So that means unless there is a very, very valid reason to upgrade clients and office should not change for 4 years after rollout. Therefore regardless of the change in O/S's, over 4 years I make a saving. Yes I won't have bitlocker or SA :-(, But i'll find and implement FOSS solutions to my worldly woes.

    Obviously with XP we have exceeded this and I Upgraded office to 2k7, But since 2001 the school (should have - before my time) spent approx 4k on XP, 4.2k on Office 2003 and 4.2k on Office 2007.

    I don't see how the school can afford a subscription until Microsoft make there terms more acceptable for smaller schools - I have a tight budget already!
    Last edited by Mr.Ben; 29th September 2009 at 11:22 AM.

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    DMcCoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Ben View Post
    What I've done is basically purchased 120 XP Licences outright on select VL. That's the total amount of machines that I have in the School. When one machine is replaced, I don't need to buy OEM licensing with the machines, It's only coming to fruition now, over the last year we have had to replace 40 machines, and I've saved by not having to get OEM Licensing.
    All volume Windows Desktop licenses are upgrade licenses only. You must have a base license for the machine that is valid to upgrade from (this includes things like OS X, but not FreeDOS etc).

    The only way you could move them like that is to at some point buy full package product licenses are £200 or so per machine.

    There are no full versions of Windows XP/Vista/7 available under any volume license scheme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMcCoy View Post
    There are no full versions of Windows XP/Vista/7 available under any volume license scheme.
    And the only way to get Windows 7 Enterprise/Ultimate (it's the same thing) is either OEM, Retail or Volume License UPGRADE with Software Assurance.

  5. Thanks to Ric_ from:

    Mr.Ben (29th September 2009)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMcCoy View Post
    All volume Windows Desktop licenses are upgrade licenses only. You must have a base license for the machine that is valid to upgrade from (this includes things like OS X, but not FreeDOS etc).

    The only way you could move them like that is to at some point buy full package product licenses are £200 or so per machine.

    There are no full versions of Windows XP/Vista/7 available under any volume license scheme.
    I'll admit to that - looked into it - assumption is the mother of all f*ckups. Looked back at what I bought though - I'm ok! (phew!).

    So that does change the game, 120 W7 licenses at the XP price (£115) is £14k.

    Still, you need an OEM os for agreements to upgrade. - so that's a £30 premium per machine. so, assuming that you have OEM's and Upgrades that's £60 per machine.

    So my next question, Can XP Home licenses can be upgraded to Pro or anything else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel View Post
    I'm based on the Isle of Wight.
    Definitely not a million miles away from me then! (DataSwift are in Wootton, so feel free to give us a shout if you need a hand), and DMcCoy is pretty close by too at Medina High School

    Quote Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel View Post
    Also does anyone recommend any particular microsoft resellers?
    We tend to point folks at Ramesys for outright purchases, but if you're going for subscription agreements, you'll probably want to shop around for a good deal - Pugh are used by a few schools on the Island too.

    Stephen

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    Quote Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel View Post
    Also does anyone recommend any particular microsoft resellers?
    In my experience, there isn't much to separate them on price (not that I'm suggesting any sort of price-fixing, of course), so go with one you trust and know to provide a good service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Ben View Post
    So my next question, Can XP Home licenses can be upgraded to Pro or anything else?
    With a VL upgrade license, yes. They are a qualifying product. We often get machines in with a base license of home, although sometime it's pro.

    With something like the schools agreement it's easier, with select and open it's a little more complicated.

    Do also note that technically VL license cannot be transferred between machines:

    6. Internal “Reassignment” of Licenses and Software Assurance acquired through Volume Licensing
    A “reassignment,” is the internal reallocation of a License from one computer to another, otherwise known
    as a transfer. Licenses for Windows Products purchased under a Microsoft Volume Licensing Program
    cannot be reassigned from one computer to another. Additionally, upgrades acquired through Software
    Assurance may not be reassigned from one computer to another computer. However, during the term of an
    Enterprise Enrollment or Enterprise Subscription Enrollment, you may reassign licensed copies of the
    Windows XP Professional on replacement computers, provided that the replacement has a “qualifying
    operating system” as listed above.
    Software Assurance coverage for an underlying Windows Product may be reassigned internally from one
    computer to a replacement computer for Select License and Open License, provided that the following two
    conditions are met:
    · The computer from which the Software Assurance coverage is transferred is restored to the
    licensed version of the operating system which was originally licensed prior to the Software
    Assurance coverage.
    · The replacement computer to which Software Assurance coverage is being reassigned is licensed
    to run the most current version of the Windows Product at the time of reassignment (identified in
    the Product List as the operating system qualifying for direct enrollment into Software Assurance).

  10. Thanks to DMcCoy from:

    Mr.Ben (29th September 2009)

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    It appears to be a perfect example of how microsoft has everyone stitched up with thier software...
    It seems that in many scenario's end users will essentially have to purchase the software twice in order to use it in a compliant manner.

    From what I understand about volume licenses not being transferrable, I take it the license goes in the bin when the computer is recycled. New licenses have to be bought for the new machines even though they may have a valid OEM license that enables you to use your current version of windows.
    Correct me if i'm wrong at any stage. I'm just detailing what is being said.
    So no volume licensing can be done on machines that arent licensed already. hmm.
    Catch twenty-two isnt it?

    Does select licensing allow the purchase of full license for a machine that doesnt already have a license? also, does office licensing work in the same way or is the license transferrable based on the machine that its installed upon?

    Whatever the score it, i'll be needing some accurate quotes to get the ball rolling.

    It seems software licensing isnt as simple as it should be. Too much is open to interpretation, and I've even had to correct some software distributors on the type of licenses they've been trying to sell.

    On a different note, its nice to see some Isle of Wight locals on here. What a nice day it is outside.

    Regards.

    CtrlAltDel
    Last edited by CtrlAltDel; 29th September 2009 at 03:19 PM.

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    @CtrlAltDel: From what you have said and the points raised by others, the following appears to be the easiest and probably cheapest way to get up and running:
    • Buy 84x Windows (any version as long as it is a retail copy)
    • Subscribe to a Schools Agreement with 156x Core Desktop CALs and 3x Windows Server Std.

  13. #26
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    I don't think most companies stick to the absolute letter of the MS licensing terms, I'm not sure if this is still current. As long as you license what you can correctly I can't see a few transfers being too much risk of any action from MS, I doubt the fairness of that term would want to be tested.

    As far as what your options are:

    Windows OS: For those with no license, OEM if they were built by the school, full versions of windows may be the only other option.

    Office can be licensed in full from a schools agreement or select agreement (at a cost of £35 or so iirc).
    Windows Server and other server applications can be obtained in full from schools agreement or select.

    I would look at select from people like Pugh/Ramesys etc. A select license will allow downgrade rights so get Office 2007 licenses.

    Office: Select
    Server: Select

    Windows: XP Home full product or cheap deals on Windows 7 (need to check which versions qualify though). Then buy the additional upgrade license under select to bring it up to XP Pro/Vista Enterprise etc. If you plan to move to Windows 7 in the near future then you may have to get Vista business, can't see the image on the license page atm

    Product High-Light - Windows Desktop OS- What is a Qualified Base license in Volume Licensing – UPDATED for Windows 7 - Windows Live


    Edit: Ah - Note: Windows Millennium and Windows XP Home Edition are not prior versions of Windows 7 Professional
    Last edited by DMcCoy; 29th September 2009 at 03:54 PM.

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    I just want to say I appreciate all the feedback in this thread. Thanks guys.

    Seems like a few random questions have turned into a good exchange of information.

    Its not easy to find all the ins and outs of these license schemes if your on the outside looking in. Something perhaps only experience can cator for.
    Everything I do I want to do properly, to offer robust solutions to problems at the lowest possible cost and to minimise wastage.
    Whatever I do, I know its going to cost the school a lot of money. I just need to find the best value solution to our scenario.
    The head is keen to minimise high initial outlay costs as its just to keep everything going for another two years, until our local authority close the site and change the three tier system over to the two tier system.

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    Just to add another little nugget of information: under the current School Agreement terms, after you have been in for a few years (3 I think) you can then choose to buy yourself out at a cost of 1.75 times the annual school agreement cost. You then own the current licenses in perpetuity as if you had bought them under the select agreement. Depending on the timing of OS and Office releases and your current budget levels that may well be a viable option.

    Obviously there is the potential for them to change that policy at some point in the next 3 years and leave you up the creek.

    We are currently on a Schools Agreement and I'm considering a buyout after we upgrade to 7 next summer although it partly depends on how the next Office release schedule pans out.

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    Ric_'s Avatar
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    There is a handy resource at http://www.microsoft.com/uk/educatio...g/default.aspx which does clarify a few things.

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    CtrlAltDel (30th September 2009)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel View Post
    The head is keen to minimise high initial outlay costs as its just to keep everything going for another two years, until our local authority close the site and change the three tier system over to the two tier system.
    It may be worth bearing in mind that, if there will be a school on your current site (not sure if you're one of the sites for an amalgamated primary school) after the current shenanigans, I believe volume licences can be transferred between organisations. Obviously, that may not be top of the list of priorities when staff are all having to re-apply for jobs, but it may help with getting funding to sort things out now.

    There's a company that appears to specialise in this sort thing, and an article or two about it on-line. I'm not 100% sure of the technicalities involved though.

    Stephen

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