+ Post New Thread
Results 1 to 14 of 14
Windows Thread, there maybe hope... in Technical; http://www.edugeek.net/index.php?nam...rticle&sid=248 so is this hope for us techies russell...
  1. #1

    russdev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Leicestershire
    Posts
    6,920
    Thank Post
    708
    Thanked 550 Times in 365 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Rep Power
    204

    there maybe hope...

    http://www.edugeek.net/index.php?nam...rticle&sid=248

    so is this hope for us techies

    russell

  2. #2

    beeswax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,285
    Thank Post
    285
    Thanked 225 Times in 153 Posts
    Rep Power
    131

    Re: there hope...

    they've always been sensible up north.

  3. #3


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,032 Times in 812 Posts
    Rep Power
    339

    Re: there hope...

    so is hope for us techies
    Sadly its not so clear cut. According to Unison ICT provision is not a 'soft service'

    Definition of soft services
    Soft services are the support services required for the operation of the building or
    facility and support the activities carried out within the building. The range of soft
    services includes:
    • Cleaning
    • Caretaking
    • Catering
    • Grounds maintenance
    • Waste management
    • Utility management
    • Security and alarm systems
    • Routine repairs and maintenance
    • Equipment maintenance
    • Reception

    There are three other categories of services to schools:
    1. White-collar support services to schools such as human resources, pay roll,finance and legal services.
    2. Educational support services such as school transport, school improvement and
    special educational needs.
    3. Information and Communications Technology (ICT) services including
    maintaining and updating the extensive ICT infrastructure planned for BSF schools.

  4. #4

    russdev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Leicestershire
    Posts
    6,920
    Thank Post
    708
    Thanked 550 Times in 365 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Rep Power
    204

    Re: there hope...

    quote from bulletin

    "South Lanarkshire has decided that non-teaching staff will not be transferred and will instead remain in the council’s employment, while cleaning and catering operations will remain in-house."

    while ict remains part of bidding company (which is always going to happen) the staff remain/become once again lea employees...

    So get best of both worlds increased ict in schools but staff dont become part of a comercial company.

    For those involved in bsf this is something to aim for...


    Russ

  5. #5


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,032 Times in 812 Posts
    Rep Power
    339

    Re: there hope...

    Are you 100% sure that this applies to IT staff? I can't see any of the BSF ICT firms effectively subcontracting staff back from the LEA. It would be a complete muddle.

    If (as I understand it) the BSF ICT firms are going for a centralised server farm to cater for several schools then all they will need on the shop floor is mouse changers. I guess the junior IT staff would be ok, but not senior techs or NM's. I can't see they will let LEA staff loose on their shiny server farm unless they are sackable employees of said IT company. - it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.
    I think the best we can all hope for is TUPE -although secondment is more likely as it usually favours the employer.

  6. #6

    russdev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Leicestershire
    Posts
    6,920
    Thank Post
    708
    Thanked 550 Times in 365 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Rep Power
    204

    Re: there hope...

    I will get some confirmation tommorow

    no but n/w managers would have access to the server farm even if part of ict firm... So n/w managers in no worst postion...

    This is not an ideal situation but at least we are in postion of still being emplyed by the lea/school...

    As said all along you have to accept bsf is coming things will change maybe not for better but as it stands forces far stronger than you and me are pushing this

    So take each small victory when can... Its start of long proccess of making bsf into a working solution...

    russ

  7. #7

    russdev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Leicestershire
    Posts
    6,920
    Thank Post
    708
    Thanked 550 Times in 365 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Rep Power
    204

    Re: there hope...

    Here is bulletin in full...

    "UK’s largest schools PFI rejects soft services
    PPP Bulletin 4/07/2006
    South Lanarkshire Council has opted to leave soft services and transfer of staff out of its £400m schools PFI following a Treasury’s report admitting failings in elements of the scheme.
    Published in March this year, the report said: "The government's view is that the evidence on satisfaction with soft services does not demonstrate value for money as consistently as other elements of the framework” and “While standards are no worse than in non-PFI structures, PFI has not led to a step change in soft service delivery.” As a result, South Lanarkshire has decided that non-teaching staff will not be transferred and will instead remain in the council’s employment, while cleaning and catering operations will remain in-house.
    The leader of South Lanarkshire Council, councillor Eddie McAvoy said that although he was delighted with the project, “Of equal importance is the Council’s ability to retain its entire staff. ”
    InspirED comprising Amec, Innisfree and Equion is the wining consortium for the project comprising 17 secondary schools. The construction will have three phases, which are scheduled for completion in the second half of 2007, 2008, and 2009.
    Barclay's Capital, acting for InspirED Education, issued bonds worth £352.2m to finance the deal. XL Capital Assurance (UK) acted as Credit Provider.





    K:\Pol&Pub Affairs\Positively Public Unit\Sources\PFI-PPP\SLanarkshire-PFI without people-PPPBUlletin-5-07-06.doc"

  8. #8


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,032 Times in 812 Posts
    Rep Power
    339

    Re: there hope...

    I will get some confirmation tommorow
    thanks..

    I entirely agree with your sentiments about making the best out of this, and I've seen/heared of enough poor SMT ICT decisions around here to actually think there will be a lot of positive aspects of BSF ICT.

    IMO BSF will bring an overall improvement in ICT planning and spending with a gradual reduction in service. Its likely (and again IMO) that schools ICT staff will have their roles reduced significantly - (eg there will be no need for a SIMS/Exchange/AD admin in each school). I doubt there will be much freedom of choice of what software gets taught either, but we'll see.

  9. #9

    webman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    8,403
    Thank Post
    637
    Thanked 961 Times in 661 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    319

    Re: there hope...

    And probably means an end to what little open source software is used in schools at present as well; once the "it doesn't cost money so it can't be any good" brigade get their hands on ICT. :x

  10. #10


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,032 Times in 812 Posts
    Rep Power
    339

    Re: there hope...

    @webman - isn't this why MS have taken such a lead in BSF - so they can crush the competition? I'd bet Sun will do an ok job of this bit though - it will be OOo /opensolaris only! lol

  11. #11

    Ric_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    7,590
    Thank Post
    109
    Thanked 762 Times in 593 Posts
    Rep Power
    180

    Re: there hope...

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd
    @webman - isn't this why MS have taken such a lead in BSF - so they can crush the competition? I'd bet Sun will do an ok job of this bit though - it will be OOo /opensolaris only! lol
    Don't forget the funky Sun workstations and SunRay terminals!

  12. #12

    webman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    8,403
    Thank Post
    637
    Thanked 961 Times in 661 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    319

    Re: there hope...

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd
    @webman - isn't this why MS have taken such a lead in BSF - so they can crush the competition?
    Absolutely, of course it is.

  13. #13
    wesleyw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kingswinford
    Posts
    2,205
    Thank Post
    223
    Thanked 50 Times in 44 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    30

    Re: there maybe hope...

    That's okay when bsf comes to our council i'll look for a challenging role lol

    Wes

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Elgin, Scotland
    Posts
    387
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Rep Power
    23

    Re: there hope...

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd
    Are you 100% sure that this applies to IT staff? I can't see any of the BSF ICT firms effectively subcontracting staff back from the LEA. It would be a complete muddle.

    If (as I understand it) the BSF ICT firms are going for a centralised server farm to cater for several schools then all they will need on the shop floor is mouse changers. I guess the junior IT staff would be ok, but not senior techs or NM's. I can't see they will let LEA staff loose on their shiny server farm unless they are sackable employees of said IT company. - it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.
    I think the best we can all hope for is TUPE -although secondment is more likely as it usually favours the employer.
    I can relate to this as this is how my previous employer's setup is:

    The network (covering all primary/secondary schools in area) is provided by Fujitsu who have a central server farm located in one of the secondaries. There are also servers in every secondary to deal with local file/backup/proxy services, etc. The servers & infrastructure are owned by Fujitsu and the schools have no physical interaction with them. Maintenance must be logged to the Fujitsu helldesk & a tech (there are TWO for over fifty schools!!!) would attend.

    The desktops are wholly owned by the schools, althought they are bought from Fujitsu only to maintain consistancy, and schools pay a yearly maintenance fee per machine for support. All schools have the same Ghost image applied, but the schools can install their own software if they wish.

    Each school utilises one of their Technicians/Technical Assistants in the IT role, either as their primary role or as a secondary role. Their job is to basically act as tier 1 support for the school and have limited admin rights to the desktops. They can also add/remove/disable users & alter NTFS permissions on the network.

    In some cases, this works quite well, although where I worked I was continually frustrated by the inability to do some basic tasks myself (eg, a restore from backups had to go the helpdesk who passed it on to the network admins 50 miles away. They then phoned me up to change to the relevant backup tape, and then remoted into the server & restored the file(s). This could take anywhere from an hour up to a week in some situations!) Now I could have completed the task in this example in five minutes, and that included the travelling time to put the backup tape in.

    So it is perfectly feasible for a PFI company to run your network completely & still have in-house IT staff employed by the LEA, but your in-house staff run the risk of getting VERY frustrated!

    Hope that's not to much of a rambling rant...

    Rob.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Any hope to recover data?
    By jason_in98 in forum General Chat
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 14th November 2013, 09:49 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •