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Windows Thread, Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please? in Technical; Originally Posted by kingswood Now this IS funny: http://www.rm.com/Secondary/Products...ef=1554.2.2.73 Where do they get these figures from???? Paul :-P Are those ...
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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    Quote Originally Posted by kingswood
    Now this IS funny:

    http://www.rm.com/Secondary/Products...ef=1554.2.2.73

    Where do they get these figures from????

    Paul :-P
    Are those prices annual costs?!?

    A school with 2 servers would have to pay over £24K a year for RM to manage their network. Add £7.5K for each additional server...

    I wish I was paid that much!!!

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    Ranger is a good suite of applications, so good they've been bought by RM! But from my experience they are overpriced, William Sharp school in Nottingham used to pay >20k per year for CSE, i think similar to Ranger (puts a front end on Windows i think). They found CSE useful, it helped but in the end they went vanilla also. You just cant beat a clean windows interface

    Bottom line, Ranger is good for a school without techies, but very pricey!

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    E1uSiV3
    then other people should not trash my comments - ranger is for morons, and complete incompetents...

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    Somebody press the ban button please.

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    oh no, perish the thought...

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    @Jonny: How can they be paying over 20k a year for CSE? Do you know why the cost is so high for them??

    I think you are probably right though- CSE and Ranger are two important solutions that plug essential gaps in support needs for schools without the relevant staff.

    Paul

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    Surely, if a school is willing to pay £20K/year for a teacher-friendly interface or outside support contract, they would rather have an in-house technician (esp. considering the pitiful pay in some schools).

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    this is my point exactly in my earlier post (i just could not be bothered to state the bloody obvious) - ranger is a load of crap. a competent engineer who is adept at using AD and GPO's would see absolutely no reason for ranger - you can do everything ranger can with AD and GPOs.

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    @free4440273: You CANNOT do everything that Ranger can do with AD and GPOs. Tell me how you do the following (with just AD and GPO mind, no scripts/add-ons)...

    (NB - taken from Ranger web site)

    - Prevent specific dialog boxes from appearing
    - Prevent applications by time of day
    - Log all user activity and attempted security violations to server's management system
    - Start ad-hoc applications on clients
    - Produce graphs of network/application usage
    - Enforce license control of applications across the network
    - Get an instant visual indication of applications in use
    - Simplified account management (inc. bulk creation)
    - Application packaging (before/after snapshot method)
    - List attempted security violations

    Personally, I don't use Ranger because most of my work is in primary schools who could not afford it. BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN IT'S FOR MORONS AND OF NO VALUE. I do not see how reading this sort of comment helps out a user who is trying to find management solutions for their network.

    If all you are going to do is post hyperbole and think jump on the back of other peoples comments to say 'oh yes, that's what I meant', then please don't bother.

    My apologies to other users if this seems like a personal crusade. As I said, I don't use Ranger but I can see that it might be of use to some. (In fact, an ex-colleage of mine who went to become network manager of a large secondary school regarded it as invaluable. He was certainly no moron but Ranger made his life easier.)

    Maybe we could start a WiKi in which Ranger users could accurately list the useful features and we could then assess how easily these might be replaced with scripts/open source/3rd party solutions.

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    I think you listed quite a few of the useful features right there. We use (at the moment) a CSE solution to do those things called the Application Toolkit, and they *are* useful. So useful in fact, that because we are planning on leaving them we are having to shop around to get a lot of the features we *need* as part of our in-house solution. Often this can be as costly.

    But let's put it into more perspective- even though we use CSE as a managed solution, we can still mess with GPOs and login scripts and all those other things you can do without having a shell experience on top of a normal Windows networked experience. What I would say in defence of these types of things is that if IT support staff left the school at any point, would the school cope without them? If not, then a managed solution is an added layer of security should things go pear-shaped. At the least it would help having that layer of support there.

    I won't tell you my gripes about CSE, but let's just say on the other side of the coin things look murky :-)

    Paul

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    Quote Originally Posted by kingswood
    What I would say in defence of these types of things is that if IT support staff left the school at any point, would the school cope without them? If not, then a managed solution is an added layer of security should things go pear-shaped. At the least it would help having that layer of support there.
    A good point. I suppose one answer would be to fully implement FITS. This would give a completely managed/documented system with change control processes and all the other guff that does with it. It's a great idea but I'm not sure how easily can be implemented in smaller schools.

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    @ajbritton: regarding your FITS idea - you could hire in help for a couple of weeks to implement the documentation and FITS systems setup. This would undoubtably be cheaper than purchasing Ranger.

    I have used Ranger in the past and it was flaky to say the least - although it may be better now. I also found the GUI a little childish (school-project-style).

    True, it is a nice package with everything you may need but you can buy better versions of everything elsewhere - all be it in seperate products.

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ric_
    True, it is a nice package with everything you may need but you can buy better versions of everything elsewhere - all be it in seperate products.
    I'm sure that's true. I propose, then, that we start a WiKi or something similar that lists the functions of the various management systems and possible open source/3rd party alternatives. A bit like the 'essential software' list, but broken down into the various areas (security, user management, reporting etc.). Users of the systems can post complaints or advice or alternatives. Anyone else think this is worth doing?

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    Yes, I second that AJB.

    This is another bone of contention that keeps re-appearing. Wiki'fying it would let all points of view be aired once only, and save us all tripping up all the time on these contentious subjects.

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    Re: Thinking Of Buying Ranger - Any Views Please?

    The Wiki page is set up at http://www.russdev.com/edugeek/doku....perate_gubbins

    It needs the categories adding but I am quite lazy!

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