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Windows Thread, Will Windows still be number one for years to come? in Technical; Interesting..... Carphone recalls webbook after customers find Linux confusing - Mobile Today Will Linux ever be accepted by the mass ...
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    Quackers's Avatar
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    Will Windows still be number one for years to come?

    Interesting.....

    Carphone recalls webbook after customers find Linux confusing - Mobile Today

    Will Linux ever be accepted by the mass market like Windows or will it always be a for a small market?

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    It depends which linux

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    The latest PC Pro has an article about sales of netbooks and how they've transformed market shares - Dell and HP were relatively late to market so Acer and Asus have now got a quite substantial share of the whole PC market just because of the netbooks they've sold.

    What the article doesn't say is what percentage of these have Linux on them but it's not going to be zero. That means Linux is being used by quite a few people (although as your article points out, some will find it confusing)

    The same confusion, of course, happened when MS released Vista - people didn't like it because it was different. I suspect this has helped Linux a bit - if you don't like Vista, why not try something else to see if it's any better.

    All the student PCs in my area dual boot Linux and Windows but I hardly ever see users in Linux unless there's a specific class going on which uses it.

    I wouldn't bet on Windows being around for ever but Microsoft have huge marketing clout which simply isn't there for Linux.

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    I used to work for a certain nationwide retail park PC chain. One thing I can say with absolute certainty is that Mac sales grew exponentially from the release of Vista. Also the Asus EeePC's were surprisingly popular and the Linux models were literally flying out the door!

    For home users it's seems to be the case of...If I have to relearn the OS and by new software/hardware for Vista, why not relearn the OS and by new software/hardware for OS X/Linux as I've heard generally bad reports for Vista. Vista has given people a reason to consider changing platform...at home.

    The problem with knocking Windows off the top spot is simply the Desktop is one and lost in the Business not the Home. Business are traditionally reluctant to change and for the most part have license tie in agreements with M$. Here Office is starting to lose ground to OpenOffice since the new UI for Office is abysmal, but the desktop show no signs of mass switching, and until it does M$ is number 1.

    Also, we should not forget that one of reasons that M$ is where it is now in the home is because a lot of people choose their home PC based on what is used at work/school. When the 16bit era drew to a close Windows 3.1 based PC's were very popular at home because that was what was being used at work/school. So even though a silent minority are now switching platform and increasing sales for OS X/Linux, the majority stay with Windows simply because it's what everybody else uses.

    Still. It's been pointed out before in lots of similar threads on this subject in the past, It a moot point. At the end of the day the next evolution for IT seems to be cloud based internet computing. It's becoming less and less important which OS you run and more and more important which Web Browser you run.

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    Michael's Avatar
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    Still. It's been pointed out before in lots of similar threads on this subject in the past, It a moot point. At the end of the day the next evolution for IT seems to be cloud based internet computing. It's becoming less and less important which OS you run and more and more important which Web Browser you run.
    I agree with most of your comments there. I think the next step will be a browser OS, but the traditional operating system we have today will still be here for years to come. Cloud Computing isn't the solution to everything and it still raises questions about data protection. Another debate is how green the idea is. Thousands of servers operating 24/7 and you may only require your data in the evenings... (working on the theory, most people work 9 - 5).

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    I've set my eee up so it can boot XP off a USB HD when I need it so got the best of both worlds

    Gotta say the Linux is OK... until you wanna do anything that's more than what comes already set up. Having aggro with wireless on it when it was working fine before (yet no probs under XP), installing apps requires messing about with the package manager and console commands (setup.exe anyone ) and haven't tried a network HP printer yet lol.

    Linux really needs to look at user experience before it can get mass market to Windows levels; it's better than it was but still doesn't do enough to hide away command shells etc that most users won't want to ever go near.

    As for cloud computing I don't trust that in the slightest, I'm keeping the CPU power and storage under the desk, under my control not Google or Microsoft's

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    farmerste's Avatar
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    what about reactos ?

    i was hoping 'reactos' would take off, it uses windows xp drivers etc, then at least when something didn't work you could mention the 'toss' part of the OS name !


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    Hi People,

    I agree with most of what you have said above, but I think the main thing is the MS marketing budget which being the size it is literally engulfs the entire market. Corporates wont switch to Linux because there are too many flavours of Linux and each has its own little foibles....MS is simple....sometimes horrid....but simple. From a product perspective MS gives you so much variety and flexibility that they ensure they capture 90% of market needs in there licensing schemes and product portfolio.

    It will take someone like Novel to really put money behind pushing Linux albeit they will push there own flavour of linux...but saying that....RedHat have been doing that for years...and they had a stint when they really wanted the desktop market ....I might be wrong but i think they have made a statement that they are no longer pushing for the home user market....hmmmm

    In all honesty, im not the greatest fan of MS, i have sold it over the years, and dont particularly like the licensing complexity, or the sheer profit that MS makes annually.

    On the other hand i have watched PC manufacturers such as HP try to introduce Linux to the business user market nearly 4 years ago in the far east when they introduced PowerLinux as a option on there DC7000 series desktops.

    I think that MS will be tied into the business world for a very long time to come, and ironically only when one of the Linux flavours becomes more MS-esque will Linux ever make a real breakthrough.

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    I agree with you Sammy completely, nearly everyone knows how to use windows to a certain level... they press the start button, go to programs and their stuff is there, also there is a my documents on the desktop where all their stuff is, the music is in the music folder etc etc

    For a home user it is that simple, they want a CD to come with their printer that will make their printer work, they want to buy games that work out of the box, OS is obviously a direct competitor but still hasn't the simplicity that Pc seems to have, and a lot of people need that simplicity. Also not everything is Mac compatible whereas nearly everything is Windows.

    Also agree with what people said about cloud, when I firt heard about it I got cold sweats in a "bugger, I'm out of a job" kind of way, then looked into it further and am less intimidated by the concept, time will only tell where our jobs lie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    they press the start button, go to programs and their stuff is there, also there is a my documents on the desktop where all their stuff is, the music is in the music folder etc etc
    That sounds remarkably like most home linux computers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    For a home user it is that simple, they want a CD to come with their printer that will make their printer work, they want to buy games that work out of the box, OS is obviously a direct competitor but still hasn't the simplicity that Pc seems to have, and a lot of people need that simplicity. Also not everything is Mac compatible whereas nearly everything is Windows.
    (with the exception of good hardware compatibility) Most of the home linux users I deal with (quite a few now) want nothing of the sort.
    It is tiring and complicated to explain to PC noobs how to install programs from CD's or search for different dependencies on the internet, because they need this version of this and that version of that - all culminating in a mess of windows slowness and malware.

    Even my old grandad can happily use the synaptic package manager (linux) to install anything he searches for. He has a massive range of software to choose from and doesn't even need to go to a shop! or download a specific java .net whatever because linux does it for him.


    I think where linux falls down is with the windows power users like yourself. Windows power users find it much more difficult to do things in linux because they have been indoctrinated in the "one microsoft way"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    I agree with you Sammy completely, nearly everyone knows how to use windows to a certain level... they press the start button, go to programs and their stuff is there, also there is a my documents on the desktop where all their stuff is, the music is in the music folder etc etc

    For a home user it is that simple, they want a CD to come with their printer that will make their printer work, they want to buy games that work out of the box, OS is obviously a direct competitor but still hasn't the simplicity that Pc seems to have, and a lot of people need that simplicity. Also not everything is Mac compatible whereas nearly everything is Windows.
    I agree that people want simplicity. I disagree that Windows is simpler than Linux or Mac. I disagree with that *a lot*.

    Last time I checked, installing Ubuntu on my machine included a few clicks, in a fully graphical environment, and I could browse the net at the same time. Once it was installed, I plugged in my new printer and it just worked - I didn't need a CD. I plugged in my webcam, and it just worked - no CD again.

    When I wanted to install software, I just used synaptic, and chose what I wanted, and voila, it was installed. No need to search for updated X, Y and Z on the net, or install from a random CD. It just worked.

    On my mac, to install software, all I do is put the CD in and drag and drop the application into the Applications folder and i'm done. I don't have to close Internet Explorer or any other application whilst the installer runs.

    To install a printer, in most cases it is again just a case of plug it in and away you go. If it does need a driver, all major manufacturers provide them.

    Windows is in no way simple any more. People are used to it, but it isn't simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd
    I think where linux falls down is with the windows power users like yourself. Windows power users find it much more difficult to do things in linux because they have been indoctrinated in the "one microsoft way"
    This is the crux of the matter. People don't like feeling like newbies after having been a power user at another system. It is easier for them to continue with what they know than to learn something new. But I will say this to them - companies used to use AS/400's, AIX, Unix, Cobol etc... and people didn't want to move on. Now, those people are finding it hard to find jobs... Computing moves on, and we have to as well.
    Last edited by localzuk; 21st November 2008 at 11:54 AM.

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    Indoctrination

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    I think where linux falls down is with the windows power users like yourself. Windows power users find it much more difficult to do things in linux because they have been indoctrinated in the "one microsoft way"
    Agreed Cybernerd, the indoctrination is a massive issue because many young adults have grown up with MS, and alot of young adults that now use Windows at work and home, grew up using it in schools and unfortunately for many poeple their IT education ended when they left schools and colleges...beyond that many just "use" there computers, they have no interest in whats happening on the OS level or why things are clunky, or why they get viruses every few weeks....they just accept it as being normal. I get the feeling that accepting and "working" around grumbles is far easier then solving the underlying problem...poeple just dont have time for IT....apart from us lot...working day and night in IT...

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I agree that people want simplicity. I disagree that Windows is simpler than Linux or Mac. I disagree with that *a lot*.

    Last time I checked, installing Ubuntu on my machine included a few clicks, in a fully graphical environment, and I could browse the net at the same time. Once it was installed, I plugged in my new printer and it just worked - I didn't need a CD. I plugged in my webcam, and it just worked - no CD again.
    Installing Ubuntu on my netbook, then divx etc took a matter of minutes as you said. Installing XP takes forever, more space and jumping all over trying to get the software you want. The linux machine was more responsive and I actually preferred the interface. If I could have ironed out my niggles I would have stuck with it.

    I think people think you have to have windows and office, it's all most of them know. Businesses don't want to change - some are still running legacy operating systems for this reason. OS X is seen as an alternative but not Linux, because very few people sell linux systems commercially - even Dell seem to hide them away.

    Most people are not prepared to buy a windows PC and then wipe a copy of XP that they paid for to then install Linux on. Personally I'd like to see the marketshare of linux grow, at the very least it will drive the development of the major commercial OS's.

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    Tried Ubuntu on two desktops the other day... very pretty and installed OK then when trying to logon it thought about it... then kicked me back out to the login screen and wouldn't do anything else

    Cloud computing to me is another part of big companies and Governments controlling your computing imo... once the CPU power is off your desk and data is held by some faceless entity you've lost control of your environment (on a personal level and a technical one). That can only be a bad thing imo



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