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Windows Thread, Aaron Margosis' "Non-Admin" WebLog in Technical; I for one always run as a non admin unless something 'really' won't run, how many of you out there ...
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    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    Aaron Margosis' "Non-Admin" WebLog

    I for one always run as a non admin unless something 'really' won't run, how many of you out there do the same?

    This is quite an interesting blog on running as a non admin


    Aaron Margosis' "Non-Admin" WebLog : Why you shouldn't run as admin...


    This may be controversial, but I truly believe it and I'll say it:

    With today's threat landscape and the way malware works today, you are better off running as non-admin WITHOUT anti-virus than you are running as admin WITH anti-virus.
    Aaron Margosis' "Non-Admin" WebLog : Anti-virus vs. Non-Admin

    I still think AV is necessary but i think running as non admin is one of the reasons that i've never (knowingly) had a virus or spyware issue.


    Non Admin Weblog home page

    http://blogs.msdn.com/aaron_margosis/pages/TOC.aspx
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 4th July 2008 at 11:42 AM.

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    mattx's Avatar
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    And I bet Aaron Margosis runs his computer as a 'normal user' NOT
    I would say that short article is the biggest load of tosh I have happened to read for quite a while - still made me smile so thanks !!

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    I bet he does i've been reading his blogs for a while, he's one of the main people behind the MS push back to the original NT model.

    My #3 reason applies just to Microsoft personnel, particularly those of us in customer-facing roles. Hey, y’all! We need to lead by example. People look to us for best practices, for the right way to do things. We are trying to convince the world that we are thought leaders in software and in software security. In the Unix world, they never run as root except when necessary. They “su”, do what they need to do, and revert back. We are not leaders when we run as root all the time. Comrades: you need to run as “User”, and your customers need to see you doing it. If you run into issues, don’t add yourself back to the admins group – file a bug against the offending product. Customers: if you see any MS sales, MCS, Premier, PSS, etc., doing web or email as admin, please tell them, “You’re not setting a very good example. I am disappointed.”

    Which short article?



    .
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 4th July 2008 at 12:01 PM.

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    I bet he does i've been reading his blogs for a while, he's one of the main people behind the MS push back to the original NT model.
    In that case then, everyone will have Admin Rights as default as that was the model for NT !!

    I do agree with going back to the NT model though - with some extra bits chucked in.

    Which short article?
    The one you just posted and the anti vir one - which again [ in my own personal opinion ] is a load of old tosh and just something to blog about just for the hell of it.

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    In that case then, everyone will have Admin Rights as default as that was the model for NT !!
    Dave Cutler and his team were charged with and set out to make a multi users 'Unix' like OS (he decided to mirror the work he did on VMS, MS codename "N-Ten") the model should of been the same all users logon as an ordinary user. You can see all of the intentions in the early MS programing guidelines unfortunatly Windows 3x/9x became very popular and most applications were written for that and lazy developers wouldn't test on NT so this is when the 'rot' began all the way up untill Vista. MS intended to start pushing this agenda when XP was released but copped out.


    The one you just posted and the anti vir one - which again [ in my own personal opinion ] is a load of old tosh and just something to blog about just for the hell of it.
    So you mean you disagree about running without anti virus, i'm not sure which bit you mean is tosh?

    I think he makes a very good point AV is fast becoming useless the future is white listing, for not i don't recommend running without but i see it a superficial defence or reactionary only.

    .
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 4th July 2008 at 12:40 PM.

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    So you mean you disagree about running without anti virus
    Well [ again this is a personal opinion ] - it depeneds on the people / person using the computer.
    On my network at home, I don't run any AV - apart from my gateway PC - everything else has no AV on, the kids computer's don't, the one in our living room does not and the ones in my office don't. I do have a copy of ClamAV though which I run sometimes on my main work PC. As all the traffic goes through my switch and gateway any dodgy traffic gets logged etc - been running like that for the last 5 years, not one virus.
    As for a school or network business placed non anti-vir - I would love not to but looking at the many ' what ifs ' puts into place that I'm afraid it needs to be there. That and a host of other factors like insurance, protection of data etc, defined job roles etc.
    Just because a PC has non admin rights, does not mean it won't be infected with any sort of malicious software etc.

    I would like to see a return of an OS like MS and IBM developed many years ago - OS/2
    LAN & WARP server along side OS/2 ver 3 OS/2 ver 4 & NT 4 in my opinion were far better than some of the stuff that is currently around. Thing is that just makes me sound old !!
    Last edited by mattx; 4th July 2008 at 12:56 PM.

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    I would like to see a return of an OS like MS and IBM developed many years ago - OS/2
    LAN & WARP server along side OS/2 ver 3 OS/2 ver 4 & NT 4 in my opinion were far better than some of the stuff that is currently around. Thing is that just makes me sound old !!

    I can agree with that I remember our NT 3.5 server being 'almost' as stable as our Netware 3 box. Then again i've found 2003 server to be very stable i really can't remember the last time one blue screened on me, the server products always seem much more stable than the client / NT4 Workstation excluded.

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    Thing is, most of the techies on this forum would not have worked with say 'other' OS's like Novel, NT4, OS/2, Warp Server etc - so they would not have seen that side of the development as to what they work with today.

    I agree about MS Server 2003, it's taken them all those years to get a server product doing what Warp & LAN Server did 10 years earlier !!

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    I'm a big fan of this blog. There are too many lazy coders writing config files to the program files folder.

    I would agree that running non-admin is at least as important as running AV. Having said that, we who run non-admin are less likely to browse "virussy" sites

    There are lots of other (!malware) reasons for least priv though.

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    There are too many lazy coders writing config files to the program files folder.
    I think coders now though are spoilt in regards to the amount of resources they have available to them.
    The really good ones [ in my opinion ] where the early ones back in Eugene Jarvis's day when they had VERY little to play around with - they managed to write code, including graphics, sound & game play in very small amounts of memory space.

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    Things are improving and I have less and less trouble with applications that won’t run as a standard user i still see the odd app that insists on putting folders or files in C:\ , I’m not sure which AV packages the guy is referring to that will only run with admin privileges but OMG

    Virus writers never cease to amaze me some of the worms out there accomplish a surprising amount and still remain < 1Mb.

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    Virus writers never cease to amaze me some of the worms out there accomplish a surprising amount and still remain < 1Mb.
    Indeed, I take my hat off to them - VERY clever coders in my opinion.

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