Using SAN with Symantec Backup Exec 11d

[shelleyfreeman_allsaints]

Hello, we are currently running Backup Exec 11d on two different networks but they are backing up separately.
We are using a Dell tape drive for one network and Portable Hard Drives (Backup-to-disk folders) for the other network. We have other servers that are running remote agents that also backup to the tape drive through Backup Exec.

At the moment all of our servers are Dell and run Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition or Standard Edition with Service Pack 2

I have been asked to research into purchasing and using a SAN solution. I will be in charge of installing and running all of this. I am familiar with using Backup Exec with tape drives and Portable Hard Drives but am completely new to anything to do with SAN.

I would be grateful if anyone could please advise me on the following:

- what hardware, software etc would be recommended and prices/vendors etc.

- If we can still use this with the Backup Exec 11d software that we have at the moment (We will shortly be upgrading to v12) and if we have to purchase anything else with Symantec in order for this solution to work (i.e. licences etc)?

- Would we be able to use one solution to cover two different networks (although in the future we will be merging the two networks together so planning for change and expansion will need to be an option!)?

Hope someone can helps me with this!

Thank You.

Shelley.

[TronXP]

If you want to backup directly from SAN > Backup device then I think you need the SAN agent for Backupexec. Speak to Symantec about it. They are good when discussing situations like this.

At my old school the used Backup exec to backup a SAN, but how exactly they did it I do not know!

[spc-rocket]

Hello, we are currently running Backup Exec 11d on two different networks but they are backing up separately.
We are using a Dell tape drive for one network and Portable Hard Drives (Backup-to-disk folders) for the other network. We have other servers that are running remote agents that also backup to the tape drive through Backup Exec.

At the moment all of our servers are Dell and run Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition or Standard Edition with Service Pack 2

I have been asked to research into purchasing and using a SAN solution. I will be in charge of installing and running all of this. I am familiar with using Backup Exec with tape drives and Portable Hard Drives but am completely new to anything to do with SAN.

I would be grateful if anyone could please advise me on the following:

- what hardware, software etc would be recommended and prices/vendors etc.

- If we can still use this with the Backup Exec 11d software that we have at the moment (We will shortly be upgrading to v12) and if we have to purchase anything else with Symantec in order for this solution to work (i.e. licences etc)?

- Would we be able to use one solution to cover two different networks (although in the future we will be merging the two networks together so planning for change and expansion will need to be an option!)?

Hope someone can helps me with this!

Thank You.

Shelley.

Hi there,

If you want to backup the data directly from SAN then you need to use the NDMP and get an NDMP agent symantec backup exec 11d. This works fine, however if you want to backup the server then the usual method of remote agents deployed to servers will work.

We have a store s500 SAN used as an iscsi LUNs to server and we backup the servers so it easier to restore the data to the server. This backs things up as the servers see it rather than directly from SAN.

HTH,

Ash.

[torledo]

Hi there,

If you want to backup the data directly from SAN then you need to use the NDMP and get an NDMP agent symantec backup exec 11d. This works fine, however if you want to backup the server then the usual method of remote agents deployed to servers will work.

We have a store s500 SAN used as an iscsi LUNs to server and we backup the servers so it easier to restore the data to the server. This backs things up as the servers see it rather than directly from SAN.

HTH,

Ash.

Ash,

are you using the nmdp option this way, it was my understanding that ndmp is used for backing up NAS filers that support the protocol over gigabit ethernet such as netapp/storevault and EMC celera, and not for fc/iscsi SAN backup.

ndmp is only available with a storevault when used as a NAS filer with a gigE capapble tape device or with a ndmp-capable backup server connected to the same LAN segment as the NAS .....i didn't think it could be used with a device operating as iscsi.

Ofcourse i could be wrong.

[shelleyfreeman_allsaints]

Hello

No we are not using NDMP at the moment just Backup Exec 11d and the remote agents. My knowledge of using anything else to do with this is slightly limited. I will have a look into what you have suggested. Thank you for your help your information is gratefully appreciated.

[spc-rocket]

Ash,

are you using the nmdp option this way, it was my understanding that ndmp is used for backing up NAS filers that support the protocol over gigabit ethernet such as netapp/storevault and EMC celera, and not for fc/iscsi SAN backup.

ndmp is only available with a storevault when used as a NAS filer with a gigE capapble tape device or with a ndmp-capable backup server connected to the same LAN segment as the NAS .....i didn't think it could be used with a device operating as iscsi.

Ofcourse i could be wrong.

If the server that is running the backupexec 11d then it is possible to backup this bu either using just the scsi or LAN. You just configure the NDMP option on storevault and then replecate the settings on BE11d and it should be fine. he storevault works as both iscsi target and also NAS so its possible to configure shares and apply NTFS permssions on the shares.

However we are not using the NDMP as we want to backup how the server sees it. i.e.

SAN----> iscsi lun ----> server -----> lan -----> backup server ---> autoloader

Ash.

[shelleyfreeman_allsaints]

Hi I have just been having a look at the Symantec support section and from what I can see there is a Backup Exec 12 SAN Shared Storage Option can anyone tell me if this is the SAN part of Backup Exec program and MDMP Agent is for the NAS? I'm trying not to get confused as to what works with what!

Thank You

[shelleyfreeman_allsaints]

O.K. Ash thank you for helping I will have another look into it.

[imiddleton25]

we had this same problem 2 years ago and we found that the solution that best fitted us was.we have 22 servers including virtual machines in 2 Dell blade encolsures with full clustering so lots of data from different sources.


1. 1.7TB EMC CX300 SAN (LUNS,META LUNS and storage groups)
2. All data is disk to disk to tape this allows all yesterdays data to be available on a second array(faster recovery) as in most school its help i JUST deleted that important document.
3. Use Microsoft Robocopy utility to copy to second array (Keeps all permissions correct)
4. second array backed up (single agent licence) each night
5 Big advantage is robocy only takes short time as only copies changes
6 Tape backup has 24 hours to run if needed (ours takes 2 hours)

[torledo]

If the server that is running the backupexec 11d then it is possible to backup this bu either using just the scsi or LAN. You just configure the NDMP option on storevault and then replecate the settings on BE11d and it should be fine. he storevault works as both iscsi target and also NAS so its possible to configure shares and apply NTFS permssions on the shares.

However we are not using the NDMP as we want to backup how the server sees it. i.e.

SAN----> iscsi lun ----> server -----> lan -----> backup server ---> autoloader

Ash.

so basically i was right that you're backing up over the LAN with ndmp on the storevault and not doing SAN backup....

didn't expect the storevault be able to do both iSCSI and NAS sharing simultaneously....although with just two 1000gbps ports it's of questionable benefit - probably better to run one or the other...

As you say the storevault can be connected via a scsi to a tape library and then have backup exec control the backups to the tape device via ndmp on the LAN.

One question i do have about the S500/S550...does it support fibre channel, i read on the specs that it does although under the specs it doesn't say how many if any FC ports it has. IS there a way to expand the number of ports with PCI-X slots on the S500 ?

[spc-rocket]

so basically i was right that you're backing up over the LAN with ndmp on the storevault and not doing SAN backup....

didn't expect the storevault be able to do both iSCSI and NAS sharing simultaneously....although with just two 1000gbps ports it's of questionable benefit - probably better to run one or the other...

As you say the storevault can be connected via a scsi to a tape library and then have backup exec control the backups to the tape device via ndmp on the LAN.

One question i do have about the S500/S550...does it support fibre channel, i read on the specs that it does although under the specs it doesn't say how many if any FC ports it has. IS there a way to expand the number of ports with PCI-X slots on the S500 ?

It does support the FC but you have to buy the kit or specify this when you purchase the unit. This can be added in later on if required, im not too sure about the ports but what's bugging me at the moment (not too much of a problem currently) is the lack of jumbo frames support on S500 and S550, the S300 does have jumbo frames.

As for the using it as NAS and SAN at the same is possible as you can have shared created on it which connects to your main network (so it can be seen as a NAS device) and the other to connect to your iscsi or FC network. This is the kind of features i like with storevault as it ticks the boxes for various scenarios.

Ash.

[torledo]

ash,

it is curious that the more expensive S500 and S550 don't support jumbo frames.

did a bit of digging and the fibre channel starter kit you mentioned does come with a 2-port 2gbps qlogic QLA hba for use in the storevault, but the datasheet says installed at factory...so i'm wondering if it isn't a user installable part.

IF it isn't it sure as hell should be, no reason why a access to the PCI-X slot shouldn't be accessible for user upgrade.

Then again most storevault customers are only really interested in the NAS and iscsi capability.

[spc-rocket]

ash,

it is curious that the more expensive S500 and S550 don't support jumbo frames.

did a bit of digging and the fibre channel starter kit you mentioned does come with a 2-port 2gbps qlogic QLA hba for use in the storevault, but the datasheet says installed at factory...so i'm wondering if it isn't a user installable part.

IF it isn't it sure as hell should be, no reason why a access to the PCI-X slot shouldn't be accessible for user upgrade.

Then again most storevault customers are only really interested in the NAS and iscsi capability.

The storevault s500 and s550 will support jumbo frames in future release of the software and this has been included as a feature request. I don't know when they will release the next version.

The FC kit should be installable and yes it does seem a bit daft if its not. You might want to contact one of their reseller for and see what they say. Unless you need the performance i think its an expensive option where iscsi would be enough.

Ash.

[torledo]

The storevault s500 and s550 will support jumbo frames in future release of the software and this has been included as a feature request. I don't know when they will release the next version.

The FC kit should be installable and yes it does seem a bit daft if its not. You might want to contact one of their reseller for and see what they say. Unless you need the performance i think its an expensive option where iscsi would be enough.

Ash.

It was just curiosity, not interested in buying a storevault for primary storage, going for a netapp box instead...

there's a certain amount of crossover between the storevaults and the entry level netapps in terms of features, but the netapps run the full ONTAP software, include FC ports and can scale with additional SATA or FC shelves...

the box we're looking though has fixed ports though which is a PITA, but there's a hefty premium for a netapp box with expansion card slots. So it was weighing up the cost of a big netapp box with expansion cards and more expensive licensing....or buying buying two cheaper boxes to do d2d. Could even buy a storevault with SATA as secondary storage depending on whether the storevaults are cheap enough.

[bullmongonee]

We've called Storevault to assist--no luck. Symantec won't speak to us without 250 US since we are running the v12 evaluation.
The responses you guys have given "almost" answer my question, but not quite.

We have a HP Server-which is running BExec v12 connected to fiber switch.

We have a 24 tape Exabyte "jukebox" connected via fiber to the StoreVault.

Desired result: We want the backup traffic OFF our live IP Network.


Storevault stated we either needed NDMP OR Fiber, but not both. So we ditched NDMP and are now attempting to configure for direct Fiber. One of the responses referenced a SAN client for BExec v12..is there one available for Storevault? I don't think so, but need to verify.

Is anyone else connecting a S550 via Fiber? If so, what's your backup solution and topology?

Any help is appreciated.