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Windows Thread, F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians in Technical; So basically you use Data recovery software (The type used by Police forces and the MoD) to produce a list ...
  1. #46
    alan-d's Avatar
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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    So basically you use Data recovery software (The type used by Police forces and the MoD) to produce a list of data files from which you interrogate to produce a list of files and sites from specific folders containing words or phrases you wish to pick up?

    Quite a bit of work to do that, and to run it on our network I would insist on full access to the data recovered. I'm sure you will understand that Data Protection is paramount.

    I'd still be interested in seeing it and a look at the whole package you mentioned at some point.

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    Hello all
    As an introduction, I am a collegue of Mitch's and happy to be here

    In reply to a few questions, raised by some members.

    The application we have designed is a bespoke collection application, which is run on a client pc over a network or the server at the time of the visit.

    The required data is automatically generated by the Microsoft operating system, the benefit are as follows.

    • Data files cannot be altered by a 3rd party
    • Accuracy is paramount as deletion of sites visited isn’t possible
    • Data can not be “misread” or assumptions made as its Microsoft itself generates the data.
    • There is no hardware or software installed on your network which can interfere with system performance, require maintainance or break down.

    At the moment we have concentrated on Windows based systems as they are by far the most common.

    We are able to extract data from the following browsers

    Internet Explorer Version 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
    MAC IE Browser
    Netscape communicator / Navigator upto 4.80
    Apple Mac Netscape Bookmark
    Netscape 6,7,8
    Mozilla
    FireFox
    AOL
    MAC Safari Opera

    As for the analysis of the data, yes there are systems on the market that will produce reports outlining the same kind of information, once you have the data, but as kevinmcaleer says “but that would require a lot of effort.” The UNIQUE aspect of or application is that the COMPLETE history of EVERY user can be collected within a typical 2-3 hr visit.
    Another point raised was “how do we prevent access if we only detect misuse after the event”. Qite simply, the answer is, the pupils know that ANY misuse WILL be detected without fail. During our pilots we addressed the pupils as part of a special assembly, as well as discussing the dangers of the internet, and chat rooms, etc a member of staff informed the school that future checks would be taking place and any indiscretions after the initial “amnesty” period would be dealt with. At the school we piloted ( a reference from which can be transcripted here) just this alone reduced the misuse within 6 months by 97%. Another unexpected result of this was the “word of mouth” warnings given by siblings and friends ( ie “don’t play games in lessontimes or they’ll get you”)

    Part of the package presented to the school on completion is a file comprising of all the URL’s which we believe need to be blocked by the Filter Company. Our intention is not to replace Filter Companies but to work alongside, enhance and complement them.
    On a month by month, day by day basis filter companies “guess” what sites to block, after every report we can give them the actual sites children are viewing. This is a benefit to the school in particular and also any other school served by that filter.

    Prior to any data being collected, ie at the time of the order, a Data Protection Agreement is signed by both parties one aspect of which is the assurance that on completion all data retrieved will be destroyed.
    We also have a “Schools Internet Policy” available drawn up by a solicitor, the sole aim was to be able to provide a school with a document which WILL protect the school (parents, governors, teachers, headmasters and pupils). This was done after we visited a number of schools and were made aware of the policies used presently, which are either drafted by unqualified people, uninformed people, or contain unnecessary or irrelevant clauses, that is if any policy existed at all. It is our intention to have a download area on our website for an updated version of this policy available every 3-6 months or when technological advances renders it necessary for inclusion.

    As for the query regarding Usernames and Passwords being “hijacked” by other pupils, as our method looks at the overall activity of a user and doesn’t just highlight misuse we can build up a picture of what that pupils was doing at the time of any questionable activity. Ie. A pupils attempt is blocked and logged for attempting to access local escorts, however prior to that he was searching for Ford Escorts, Escort owners clubs, etc. As you and other members will know disreputable companies design websites to be stumbled upon during quite innocent searches, and we would not want a pupil caught out by these methods to be reprimanded in the same manner as a serial offender of active searches. This is addressed during the assembly in more detail.

    I apologise if this post is a little longwinded but I can appreciate that a lot of questions have arisen on this board and needed to be addressed.

  3. #48

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    Hi everyone.

    Had a bit of a chat with Mitch and given him a bit more feedback.

    What they are now looking for are a school or two that use Roaming Profiles to give it a try and report on how it works with them.

    Please remember that irregardless of how the information is secured about user activities it is also a follow up service that builds on user education. The idea is to make users aware that whatever they do can be checked, it can also to help pinpoint problem areas with existing filters and pinpoint particular things that students are attempting to access.

    I hope this gives a bit more background.

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    Question - What if a user delete's his/her own temp internet files and history?

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    impresion i got that it use some kind of methord to be able to still get at these but then i maybe wrong..

    russ

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    Russdev

    You are quite right,

    Mitch

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    Hello AJ

    The Temp Internet Files and/or History and/or Cookies are not used for the collection, as I said it isnt possible to delete the files used, which is what makes our approach so complete.
    What we need is a network to try, with the response from the network admin posted on here.

    Mark

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    @Marcus - If what you are saying is true then all the products that claim to erase your internet tracks are worthless?

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    Hmmm
    Logs that can never be deleted. Not likely. MS would be in deep crap if you were unable to clean them out. IE logging to 2 areas smells.

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    So, the files which cannot be deleted are not part of the user profile then. User profiles can certainly be deleted fully.

  11. #56

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    I know that several areas exist where your browsing record is recorded. It is quite well known amongst the investigative community that simply clearing our caches and browsing histories are useless in the long run. I can't for the life of me remeber which files these are though.

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbritton
    So, the files which cannot be deleted are not part of the user profile then. User profiles can certainly be deleted fully.
    A browsing history is saved in the Windows system files somewhere too IIRC.

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    @ajbritton

    There are a number of methods use, im at a school now that has mandatory profiles, and the data i require is there.

    Mitch

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    OK, I can just about believe that IE stores history in the Windows system files somewhere, but surely not mozilla/firefox, unless it is somehow extracted at the network level and stored. I'm fascinated. Can anyone point me to something elsewhere on the Internet that supports this view?

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    Re: F.A.O. All ICT Managers / Technicians

    @Marcus/Mitch
    I'm willing for you to visit and show me what you can do - however, I do not use roaming profiles and Dorset might be a bit of trip for you. I helped beta test Securus, so have some experience in this area. I would be happy to post my findings here after your visit. What you must realise though is that peeps on this forum (mostly!) really know what they're talking about and if you can't/won't go into some technical details of how your service works, then you will undoubtedly be viewed with some distrust...
    PM me if you're intested in coming down...

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