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Windows Thread, NT backup is that good enough? in Technical; Originally Posted by MrHappy Its a bloody good question. but with HDD storage cheap as ever and getting much larger, ...
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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    Its a bloody good question. but with HDD storage cheap as ever and getting much larger, with NAS and raid, do we really really need tape drives?
    yes we do.

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    PEO
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    yes we do.
    imthinking in termsof cost...

    Why do we really need tape drives when hdd are cheaper?

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    Its okai storing to Terrastores, NAS#s etc but you can't always have them in different locations and there often not portable. I can take one tape home a week away from site as site may burn to the ground loosing all the data. Fine okai fireproof safes etc i know, but its safe knowing that the tape is in my house locked in my safe so its secure and its a good way away from work so work can burn and I can still restore the critical stuff. If it was on a SAN in the server room and it all burnt, your stuffed.

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    zag
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    yes we do.
    After sitting infront of a tape drive and hearing all kinds of strange noises on my main(and only) accounting backup a few years ago, eventually getting no data off 7 seperate tapes due to "degredation". I never used tapes again Managed to pay a company to restore the hard disk!

    Tape = dead technology!

    For the people using NTbackup, how do they check the scheduling? Last time I used the windows scheduler it kept stopping every time there was a daylight saving time event in the calendar. That's why I eventually moved to backup exec and have to say have never had any problems.

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    I use backup assist on top of nt backup this does all the scheduling etc.. for you.

    Ben

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    Tape = dead technology!
    No while i agree that tape is coming to an end it still has a place and will be used for some time yet. Your problem there was not testing your backup system often enough to realise that your backup wasn't working as the device was faulty.
    I've restored loads of servers from LTO tapes and never had an issue just make sure you don't use tapes forever and check that the device is actually working.


    I just use the windows schedular for running jobs and haven't had an issue but we do only use NTBackup on one server.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ittech View Post
    After sitting infront of a tape drive and hearing all kinds of strange noises on my main(and only) accounting backup a few years ago, eventually getting no data off 7 seperate tapes due to "degredation". I never used tapes again Managed to pay a company to restore the hard disk!

    Tape = dead technology!

    For the people using NTbackup, how do they check the scheduling? Last time I used the windows scheduler it kept stopping every time there was a daylight saving time event in the calendar. That's why I eventually moved to backup exec and have to say have never had any problems.
    for small business and schools with a handful of servers the upfront cost of tape may mean it's a dead technology, but that's not the case for medium to large businesses.

    I don't know what the figures are for annual spend on tape technology for large orgs but tape is still very much a part of they're backup processes. what offsite really means is portable, and a disk array locked in a server room susceptibable to criminal damage, flood, fire or eathquake is not secure enough.

    As for usb hdds, that's fine if you've got a handful of servers to backup. But is it really manageable and cost effective to backup 12 servers to individual hdds ? How about 20 servers, what do you do if you get to 50 servers ?

    D2D2T is also very popular. D2D or tape emulation to disk is the most efficient and cost effective method of backup...but caching or offloading to tape is essential for offsite storgae. Even companies with a RAID disk array at a remote site to replicate to will still copy that data to tape.

    Give me some examples of companies eliminating tape from they're backup workflow to convince me it's a dead technology ?
    Last edited by torledo; 6th May 2008 at 12:57 PM.

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    Okai, I should add to this thread, They were asked the question about tape and basically you can get System Centre Data Protection Manger for a few squids (it is they claim very cheap for education) and that will allow tape support in 2008. Not tried it myself, but do have DPM somewhere either in Technet+ or Actionpack so there may still be light....

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    I'm in the process of stopping our Tape backups, although currently doing both. We are on a large sites, 80 acres with 6 buildings not being attached to each other, other than fibre. NAS boxes in each running their own backups, if all 6 buildings burn down i think we'll have bigger problems than the backups.

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    We said something similar as we have separate buildings but a governor that works in industry still isn't happy.

    NAS boxes while in use are still open to a massive virus or hack attack.

    We are under a busy flight path so he said imagine a situation where in the holiday (so we can put aside the 1500 dead students debate) a plane crashed on the site and destroyed both buildings. That's allot of lost work, records and i'd imagine the IT department would be under heavy scrutiny from SLT the LA and parents whose kids had lost all of their GCSE/A level corse work.

    So it’s still a good idea to slowly backup your NAS boxes onto tape (one modern LTO device should be enough) and take them off site at least once a month.

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    We use the NT Backup to backup system state for AD and Exchange, and then just robocopy for files. We then have one server in a (mostly) concrete room (which is also in a different building to everything else) as an on-site backup server which has daily and weekly backups. We then have two external drives which run a separate backup and are rotated each week.

    We look at it as three levels of backup:
    1) shadowcopies on all servers
    2) on-site backup to the backup server
    3) weekly off-site external hard drives

    Haven't had any problems in the 2 1/2 years i've been working there.

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    @ OutLawTorn: Where do you store your offsite backups?

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    zag
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutLawTorn View Post
    We use the NT Backup to backup system state for AD and Exchange, and then just robocopy for files. We then have one server in a (mostly) concrete room (which is also in a different building to everything else) as an on-site backup server which has daily and weekly backups. We then have two external drives which run a separate backup and are rotated each week.

    We look at it as three levels of backup:
    1) shadowcopies on all servers
    2) on-site backup to the backup server
    3) weekly off-site external hard drives

    Haven't had any problems in the 2 1/2 years i've been working there.
    That's pretty much exactly the same as our system.

    I use these 250gb Western digital external 2.5" hard disks to take the data off-site with me(to my home). They are great because they don't need an external power supply, cost 60 quid, and are easy to carry.


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    Do you have a secure are for storage at home?

    Are you just taking student work or MIS/Payrole data?

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