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Windows Thread, Windows Home Sever in Technical; The problem is that these things still don't get around the problem of people not having backups, especially if they ...
  1. #16
    DMcCoy's Avatar
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    The problem is that these things still don't get around the problem of people not having backups, especially if they start moving stuff on it to share

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    dhicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybernerd
    In most cases (especially file/print serving and proxies) you can do a lot more with ubuntu than you can with windows 2003 server, let alone the home edition.
    I'm mostly worried about home users wanting to plug in any old printers they have floating around - crummy Windows-only drivers for cheap inkjets, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybernerd
    via epia (small form factor) boards can use external laptop PSU's. 17w idle IIRC http://www.icp-epia.co.uk/
    17W idle? Thanks, good to know. Any idea what it requires at peak? I have an Epia board and power supply handy. The power supply is rated at 19V 6.32A - 120W. That would have to power the motherboard, hardware RAID controller, two SATA drives, DVD drive and possibly USB bits and bobs. Will a 120W power supply manage that do you reckon? Some Googling reckons a SATA drive takes up (maybe?) 15W at peak, so that's 30W gone already. There's also the question of how I get it plugged into the case neat and tidily - all the desktop-style cases I can find are designed to take an ATX power supply with kettle-lead style AC connection, not a laptop-style DC connection (the ultra-small form factor ones take DC in, of course).

    Quote Originally Posted by DMcCoy View Post
    The problem is that these things still don't get around the problem of people not having backups, especially if they start moving stuff on it to share
    This is why I figure proper hardware RAID 1 mounted in the front of the case - "backups" simply consist of pulling one of the harddrives out, shoving a new one in and letting the RAID card rebuild the array.

    Hmm - I suppose I could go for an external eSATA RAID box and a fanless motherboard, case and power supply. Does anyone know if these external RAID contraptions make much racket? I assume they have their own power supply of some kind - a laptop-style external brick again? Any cooling fans?

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    dhicks's Avatar
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    Some more Googling turns up several almost-but-not-quite suitible systems. Small fanless systems are around, but none with eSATA connectors or enough room left in the case to add one. I can either use a USB connection (a third the speed) or... have I got this right, is an eSATA connector just a fancy way of leading a SATA cable outside the case? Can't I just drill a small hole in the case of the PC and poke a normal SATA cable through it?

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    DMcCoy's Avatar
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    The one in the back of my external drive seems to be a different shape from sata, although I've never used esata yet

  5. #20

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    Take a look at http://linitx.com/viewcategory.php?catid=64&pp=63,64 - mini-ITX cases galore and some of them have multiple drive bays

    If you do not intend the end-users to do anything to the machine (keeping it as a black box), I would have thought Linux would be the way forward - not least since you could make some extra money off it.

    eSATA does indeed have a slightly different connector (they did this to distinguish between the two IIRC).

    From my experience, Linux has great support for printers and you still need the Windows drivers at the client anyway due to the way Windows prints.

  6. #21

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    The biggest advantage WHS has over a vanilla server solution is most of the technicalities are hidden from the end user. The original MS concept was for OEMs to deliver an 'out of the box' solution that required limited technical expertise to set it up and have it managed backups of client PCs.

    The fact that we can buy the software and put together our own WHS is a bonus for those people who want some choice in the hardware vs buying WHS from an OEM.

    I used to have an old SCSI based 'server' at home which was used for backups; although all of the PCs in the house (my wifes laptop, my kids' PCs) were connected to the server and I had shown them how to backup their data they seldom if ever did. (A situation I find myself experiencing almost every day at school, with teachers!).

    When the WHS Beta was announced, I downloaded it and had a play. It looked promising so I bought a cheap DELL Dimension system unit, stuffed it full of SATA disks and installed WHS on it. It worked. When the Beta expired I bought the OEM software from Novatech. WHS backs up our data painlessly; it acts as a media server for our family photographs which we can now stream wirelessly to our 42" Plasma TV via a PS3.

    It's true I could have gone for a Ubuntu server like others have suggested; I would have found that an interesting technical challenge but on this occasion what I was looking for was a quick & easy solution to backing up our data at home. WHS works for us.

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    17W idle? Thanks, good to know. Any idea what it requires at peak?
    30W apparently. Of course you'd need to factor in the drives. We use these as thin clients:
    http://www.icp-epia.co.uk/index.php?...d&productId=91

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    i personally think that Apple with leopard and some of the newer hardware they've released are delivering better home-centric products. I think time machine and the wireless time machine thing is the right approach to the problem of backing up data and making it simple to use.

    They're still struggling with a competitive media center product to match WMC. I think focusing their efforts on trying to create a cash cow with the apple TV is the wrong tactic. They'd be better served finding a replacmenet for front row, and developing a true media center application within leopard.

    if you want seamless file, print and internet sharing in the home i'd opt for the mac mini for file sharing, with the time capsule for wifi backups. And then a macbook for working wirelessly and the ipod touch for occasional web browsing while sitting on the bog. And that isn't going to break the bank either.

    Much better package than WHS..

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    Smile

    I purchased one of them over the weekend, and it`s great there are lots and lots of addins on the web for it... Well easy to access data remotely...
    Plus you can have it downloading things from the INTERNET utorrent hehe at a very low electric costs... Plus you can access it like a normal interface windows 2003 whichs is good...

  10. #25

    dhicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ric_ View Post
    Thanks - I've ordered stuff from them before, works well (I go past their office regularly, too, so I might be able to save on postage!). The nearest thing to what I want seems to be the M200. This doesn't actually have any eSATA connectors or room to add one of those passive eSATA plates that come with external RAID boxes, however I figure I can have at said plate with the tin snips to chop it down a bit, then Dremel a hole in the side of the case to screw it in and have an eSATA connection available.

    A lot of the cases on there are designed to fit Via boards, but I figured to use the 1.2Ghz fanless Jetway board and add 3 extra network ports via a daughterboard, effectively turning the device into a switch.

    From my experience, Linux has great support for printers and you still need the Windows drivers at the client anyway due to the way Windows prints.
    I figure I might set these up as redirected printer ports again, so all you need client-side is a generic Postscript driver.

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    dhicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    if you want seamless file, print and internet sharing in the home i'd opt for the mac mini for file sharing
    Defiantly an option worth considering, I think. I do still want proper hardware RAID 1, though - I figure an external RAID box will do nicely. I see the Mac Mini does USB and firewire, but not eSATA. Naturally, I now can't find a decent external RAID box that does firewire (although USB is common enough, just a third the speed). Anyone know of a good one? Anyone familiar with the internals of the Mac Mini - would it be possible to take apart, turf out the included harddrive, and find somewhere to drill a hole to add a new eSATA port or two (how many internal SATA port does the Mac Mini have?)? If that's not an option, can the Mac Mini boot (reasonably fast) off a USB-connected drive?

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  12. #27

    webman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    blah blah blah apple etc etc etc

    Much better package than WHS..
    Yeah, and much more expensive and not likely to work cross-platform.

  13. #28

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    I considered WHS and didn't like the restrictiveness of it. There are some neat features demonstrated on some of the microsoft video blogs but in the end I opted for Ubuntu Server 64bit. This is running my webserver/ssh/torrentflux/ushare (stream to xbox360)/samba plus I keep adding more and more stuff.

    BTW I've got a dell poweredge server with 2x500gb drives (raid) and a 80gb drive with the OS on - comes in at 85watts so not as green as some of the more power friendly options!

  14. #29

    dhicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancingdruid View Post
    I considered WHS and didn't like the restrictiveness of it. There are some neat features demonstrated on some of the microsoft video blogs but in the end I opted for Ubuntu Server 64bit. This is running my webserver/ssh/torrentflux/ushare (stream to xbox360)/samba plus I keep adding more and more stuff.
    In the end I decided I don't have the money to buy lots of fancy new machines (or Windows Home Server), so I've just bought the external RAID device:

    http://www.centralhardware.co.uk/ind...&productId=912

    I figure I can get that to work via USB fast enough for a home server - I'll hook it up to my fanless 1Ghz VIA board. I'll install a Linux OS on it, of course - probably Freebuntu. I want this thing to share files and do web-based email, maybe source code control, nothing fancy. I have a Dell PowerEdge at the moment, but it's proving a little bit to noisy for my living room.

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    john's Avatar
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    I think im going to just get the latest entry level HP Proliant ML1 series server for home as at £199 its a flippin bargin and has free double ram and hard drives on it till the end of the month!

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