Poll: Ubuntu Linux Vs Windows Vista - Which is better?

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Windows Vista Thread, Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux? in Technical; I can't understand why it is only ever MS that get grief for this ... Macromedia/Adobe are just as bad ...
  1. #91

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    I can't understand why it is only ever MS that get grief for this ... Macromedia/Adobe are just as bad with their products ... and let us not get into those of us who paid for the beta of OSX ... and then 10, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 ... and have pre-ordered 10.5!!!

    Symantec are the same too ... a new verion of Systemworks or Internet Security every year ... and then we have the games market ... football management games get an update each year so that means Championship Manager and Football Manager get bought ...

    And then we have the uproar about the online model ... almost renting the software ...

    Let me introduce you to World of Warcraft ... one of the most successful pieces of software out there ... with mulititudes paying monthly!!!

    Instead of just attacking the business model of MS how about we get back to original idea of this thread ... will either of the above OSes do anything for you and if so, what?

  2. #92

    Geoff's Avatar
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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    Quote Originally Posted by NetworkGeezer
    @Geoff & Openhgs

    Surely even Linux needs planned down time for kernel updates?
    No you can avoid that if you really want to. You virtualise the system (user mode Linux is the easiest option here). Have two virtual machines running with Failover (eg, failoverd). You take one down and upgrade it (failoverd kicks in and redirects users to the other virtual system). Then take the other down and upgrade it. The failover will allow the system to keep running and servicing user requests while you upgrade the kernel(s).

    Note though, in this situation you don't upgrade the host kernel running the UML virtual systems. But as it's not 'exposed' (all the services that users interact with are running in the virtualised environments) this isn't a major issue 99% of the time.

    But yes, sanity demands you don't bother will all this madness and reboot the box occasionally for kernel updates instead, it's simpler.

  3. #93

    webman's Avatar
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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    Yep, it's not just MS - Apple et al are just as bad. All these commercial vendors are just in it for the money and to please the shareholders.

  4. #94

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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd
    Like child abusers, MS prey on ignorance and vulnerability.
    Woah! Thats a bit strong. Remember it's only software. I don't think one person has died because of Microsoft's market dominance. Also the work done by the Gates foundation will probably do more for the health of children then all Linux distros put together.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd
    I honestly do feel ripped off by what microsoft sell us. Our school spends thousands every year on microsoft yet we still aren't legal. Even with educational pricing I feel that the school is being exploited.
    Too many people on this site think of free software as no cost software. The true comparison would be putting together a stack based on commercial distros RHEL or SLED rather than CentOS.

    Even programmers have to make a living. It was really sadening when the OpenBSD devs had to go cap in hand to all and sundry to get the money to continue. I mean, after all they had done to increase OS and network security, it was just so heart breaking.

    Of course we EduGeeks live a monastic exustence only doing the job for the gratitude of teaching staff

  5. #95
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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    Personally I have no problem handing over money to Microsoft which I do through our schools agreement (by far the easiest way to stay legal if not always the cheapest).

    I would not consider any other solution because:-

    1) The software works very well with minimal support time
    2) More people know how to use it than any other software so minimal training required for new staf
    3) A big part of our role in schools is not just to get kids through exams but to prepare them for the real world - and the real world is pretty much a Microsoft one.

    I am looking forward to rolling out (will automatically be licenced on all our machines thanks to the schools agreement). Just as soon as we can get Adobe Premiere elements running on it! (no luck so far)

  6. #96
    k-strider's Avatar
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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    Limbo on your point about traning for the real world... i have to agree..

    when i was at school we used BBCs (early days)and ACORNS and well when i was at 6th Form Windows was well established ( 96-98 ) but our school still used Acorns and me and another Guy wanted to do computing but we said to the Teacher can we do it on PCs instead of Acorns cause as soon as we leave here we will be using PCs and Windows...

    they basically said no.. so i did Business Studies instead...

  7. #97

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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    Its really more of a Linux v Windows thread than Ubuntu v Vista. More appropriately it should be Edgy v Vista. I use Kubuntu at home, Ubuntu on the laptop and Windows in school but only because I have to (even then the thin clients boot with PXE linux)

    Kubuntu Dapper (With latest KDE) > Edgy > Vista > XP

  8. #98

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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    Quote Originally Posted by limbo
    Personally I have no problem handing over money to Microsoft which I do through our schools agreement (by far the easiest way to stay legal if not always the cheapest).

    I would not consider any other solution because:-

    1) The software works very well with minimal support time
    2) More people know how to use it than any other software so minimal training required for new staf
    3) A big part of our role in schools is not just to get kids through exams but to prepare them for the real world - and the real world is pretty much a Microsoft one.

    AAARRRRGGGHHHHHHHH ... the worst reasons in the world!!!

    ok .. point one is valid of pretty much any OS once you take the time to work with it ... ok, apart from maybe RiscOS.
    Point two ... a very poor arguement ... people know it because they use it ... if they used something different they would know that too.
    Point three ... the idea is not to teach the kids how to pass exams (even though that is the benchmark set down for schools by DfES and society in general) but to teach them how to learn. One of the best methods is to introduce them to different situations.

    Ensure teh students learn transferable skills ... it means that they become adaptable and will not be phased when they suddenly have to change systems if the company they work for gets bought out. (one parent this year has admitted to using W2K, XP Pro, OSX, Windows terminal Server, Sunrays, Red Hat and SuSE ... all becuase of changes within the company and parent company! talk about being adaptable!!!)

    If you take the Army ... one of the stock phrases you will hear in traing is "improvise, adapt, overcome!" ... the ability to change is paramount.

    Ok ... off my soapbox now.

  9. #99
    limbo's Avatar
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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    The army may promote the ability to change (and even Monty Python were heard to say "Adapt, Adopt an improve" - although that was in a lingerie shop so probably very different to the army, or perhaps not!)

    But they also promote familiarity with your kit - repetition to the point of automation.

    And it was not realy the students I was thinking about in terms of number two - kids can adapt to anything - it is the digital imigrants that make up a teaching staff that have trouble if a toolbar moves slightly to the left.

    Having to support them through learning a new OS / Office suite would probably lead to me giving up completely!

  10. #100

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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    Quote Originally Posted by limbo
    3) A big part of our role in schools is not just to get kids through exams but to prepare them for the real world - and the real world is pretty much a Microsoft one.
    I seem to remember reading about (maybe it was on here) a conversation someone had with a business person. The reason they used MS was because that was what their employees had learned in school!

    Andy

  11. #101

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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    Quote Originally Posted by andy
    I seem to remember reading about (maybe it was on here) a conversation someone had with a business person. The reason they used MS was because that was what their employees had learned in school!

    Andy
    my school is currently going through BSF and the IT Service provider wants to use star office, which i haven't got a problem with.

    i agree with the whole 'you need to teach the kids how to use a Word Proccesor, Speadsheet and not Word, Excel'

    but the issue being raised at the min is when you look at job adverts they will normally state applicants need expericene with microsft office and not word prccessing or speadsheets.

    you get the same issue with windows and linux, ok fair enough most of the time your using an application and not the opperating system behind it, but how well are you equiping the students for the real world if you only teach them linux and open office or windows and microsoft office.

    some things you can get around, ie install office and open office, and let them have a go with both you could have windows and linux machines.

    but at the end of the day it comes down to time, have you got the time to setup and maintain both systems.

    but also teaching time, the ciruculum is already packed with so much have the teachers got the time to teach the students the difference. (all this in a world where some people don't know the difference between a computer and a monitor) which is one of the main problems i have with the curicuclum, so much time is spent teaching applications, creating databases, presentations, reports etc Yet very little if any time is spent teaching them what is a computer, why do we have a network, what is a network, could go on but need coffee.

  12. #102
    Pottsey's Avatar
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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    “but also teaching time, the ciruculum is already packed with so much have the teachers got the time to teach the students the difference.”
    Well my school is a special needs school and if our kids can handle both then I see no reason why mainstream cannot do both. We use both Open Office and MS word along with IE and Firefox and more rarely Writing with Symbols and Talking first word.

    Once children have learnt 1 word processor the rest are easy to pick up and once you get children used to swapping programs they learn and pick up new programs a lot easier then those who only every use 1 application. If children with learning difficulties can do this there is no excuse for mainstream children not being able to lean and use more then 1 program.

    I find a lot of children at first pretend to struggle with a change of Internet browser just to get out of work but if you turn you back or give them free time they don’t have any problem finding and playing games or searching for various pages.





    “Yet very little if any time is spent teaching them what is a computer, why do we have a network, what is a network, could go on but need coffee.”
    I agree on that which is why every so often I take over an IT lesson and let the kids take a PC apart and lean about how it all works or let a few work with me around the building. I can see how that’s a bit tricky in a large school though. I always thought IT techs should get more involved in lessons a large part of my timetable is spent in classrooms dong support though I do pull my self out of classrooms at certain times of year like when new hardware arrives. But again we are a small school I guess larger ones cannot do this.

  13. #103
    Disease's Avatar
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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    [
    Point two ... a very poor arguement ... people know it because they use it ... if they used something different they would know that too.
    But the point he is trying to make is that the people still need to be trained on the new product and that increases overheads. People use MS because it's the accepted norm and its easier I see no reason for it to change.

    Example:

    Trying to install camera recording software today.

    Linux - took 2 hours of messing around to get it to work.

    Windows installer installed in 3 mins working in 5.

    In todays busy climate why bother with something that has no more features than windows but is more a pain in the ass.

  14. #104
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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    I wonder whether we would be having this discussion if Microsoft products were free? (Which personall I think it would be a shrewd marketing strategy on behalf of Microsoft if they did because it would embed it absolutely into all the blank canvases that are new students!)

    For me the only reason not to use Microsoft in tthe current climate would be a financial one, and at the moment we have the money to fund a Schools Agreement so it is a no brainer.

  15. #105

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    Re: Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

    @Disease
    You sound like that bald guy with the moustache in the first Matrix film.

    How will things ever change if we just to keep taking wide, winding path.
    IE6 no change for years then as soon as FireFox started to gain momentum what d'ya know IE7 comes out.

    It's not just state monoplies we have to worry about.

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