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Windows Vista Thread, Vista: Is it here to stay? in Technical; Even microsofts own Vista take up stats cannot be anywhere near what they say, evey Vista PC that comes in ...
  1. #16
    Quackers's Avatar
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    Even microsofts own Vista take up stats cannot be anywhere near what they say, evey Vista PC that comes in gets downgraded (or upgraded depending on how you look at things ) to Windows XP, so yes, a Vista licence sold, Vista in use, no.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
    Even microsofts own Vista take up stats cannot be anywhere near what they say, evey Vista PC that comes in gets downgraded (or upgraded depending on how you look at things ) to Windows XP, so yes, a Vista licence sold, Vista in use, no.
    That's what i would have thought, and agree with geoff that if they haven't already done so they would downgrade to xp on newly purchased Vista machines.

    But i think the silicon report is a bit vague on whether Vista has actually been deployed and in use at these companies. The companies have it seems been asked if they've moved to Vista which would suggest deployment rather than just purchasing of Vista licenses. Who knows ?, i think what's more important for us would be to know some facts and figures for here in the uk.....after all if potentially 1in10 or 1in20 companies to whom we apply for jobs in the future require Vista knwoeledge it would be important to know if we need to become Vista mgmt gurus even if we have no intention of deploying it on our own networks. Education and the public sector may be steering clear of Vista, but is the same true for everyone in the private sector ?

    I'm hoping that figure is more like 1in50 or that its about as common in the enteprise as coldfusion so that i don't have to bother with it at all, and just stick to XP SP2 and SP3....

    Cue irate coldfusion developers.

  3. #18

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    I'm hoping that figure is more like 1in50 or that its about as common in the enteprise as coldfusion so that i don't have to bother with it at all, and just stick to XP SP2 and SP3....

    Cue irate coldfusion developers.
    There's a good reason COBOL programmers earn an absolute fortune - it's not C++! Seriously the less popular an OS/Programming Language/Application is the more you can earn by speacilising if there is a small segment of industry that for what ever reason becomes reliant on it.

    If 1in50 SME's deploy Vista then that's 1in50 SME's who will be wanting Techs with Vista knowledge and would be willing to pay more for them.

    Me, I looking for a career with VMWare

  4. #19
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    There's a good reason COBOL programmers earn an absolute fortune - it's not C++! Seriously the less popular an OS/Programming Language/Application is the more you can earn by speacilising if there is a small segment of industry that for what ever reason becomes reliant on it.

    If 1in50 SME's deploy Vista then that's 1in50 SME's who will be wanting Techs with Vista knowledge and would be willing to pay more for them.

    Me, I looking for a career with VMWare
    Yes, but cobol programmers aren't working on new projects, they're earning the buck maintaining old systems and old code. That's not necessarily a bad thing and we all know about the millions of lines of cobol code that needs to be maintained by a small army of middle aged cobol developers. There's a fair number of cobol programmers who've joined the 21st century and embraced java.

    And find me a cobol developer in their teens, 20's or even early 30's ?

    Unfortunately niche does't always command great money, novell sysadmins for instance. Same would apply for Vista admins.

    I do agree VMware is a good choice, plenty of money to be earned in plannign and deploying ESX projects. Throw in some SAN knowledge and you've got a lucrative skills package.

  5. #20

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Yes, but the point is if a 20 year old was smart s/he would learn some COBOL fastish and send a CV into a bank. I did COBOL during my B-TEC, surprisingly easy language to learn - I just find coding a complete bore.

  6. #21
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    Interesting that the vista uprades were from those moving off windows 2000...i must say that does surprise me somewhat. Perhaps an upgrade to XP would have felt a bit like preserving the status quo
    By the time licencing 6 came in XP was already available and Vista (Longhorn) was only a year away most enterprises and large companies decided to stick with the known and stable 2K and avoid (the then troublesome awkward new OS) XP and wait for the great Longhorn. Imagine their dissapointment with what arrived but it's too late as most of the 2K boxes need replacing but i imagine they'll be trying to hold on for Windows 7 for most upgrades which i suspect will be a good release. MS do have a habit of eventually coming good.

    @ torledo :
    novell sysadmins for instance
    Unfortunatly netware is dead (RIP) so paying over the odds for support is dead money and you might as well upgrade, most cobal apps are viewed as an in house investment by companies (possibly over many years) and if it still meets it's purpose then they're making money by keeping that system servicable. COBOL has had it's day though and will be wound up eventually.
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 17th April 2008 at 08:47 AM.

  7. #22
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    I'm holding on for Windows 7, personally. Vista is OK for light stuff, but I still don't trust it, at all. XP is still my choice.

  8. #23

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    As regards to the next version of Windows I would suggest that many of us here, and in industry would be more prepared to adopt that rather than Vista due to the fact most of use would have Server 2008 installed and configured correctly by this time. Dumping a network OS without the back end to control it and expecting corporates to adopt it was dammed stupid of Microsoft IMHO.

  9. #24

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Well in my current environment I'm looking at holding out with Win2k3/XP for as long as possible. I'm sure Win2008 will be installed here eventually, possibly after I'm gone. I can't see Vista being installed anytime soon, if at all. Windows 7 is likely to be the next desktop change, although personally if I'm still here I'd be looking at Linux alternatives - if at all possible.

    Personally, at home, I'm a devout mac fanboy. At the moment Win XP does all I need, Vista is a no way never and by the time Windows 7 comes around I be doing everything exclusively on the mac/ps3. Weather or not I use Windows 7 depends on the work environment I'm in at the time.

  10. #25

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    Anyone seen Windows 7 yet, cant find any beta's of it

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I'm hoping it'll be like what happened when Windows ME was released (which was also terrible). Microsoft then went on to produce Windows 2000. Which was the best desktop OS they've ever produced IMHO.
    Not sure but I think that's re-writing history! Windows 2000 wasn't a successor to Windows ME; it was a successor to NT4. As others have said, MS used to effectively have a "business" and "home" OS; XP was the first attempt to merge them. XP Home and XP Pro are basically the same with a few features left out of the cheaper version because they're not relevant (eg most homes don't run domains)

    If MS do release Windows 7 next year (and given that it's barely alpha code I think that they might struggle to release in less than 12 months) that means Vista will have been available for about 2.5 years which is comparable to the life of NT4 and Windows 2000 so they could claim to be back on track with a new OS every few years.

    Windows 2000 was good; it added some useful stuff that NT4 didn't have but I think XP added some really useful stuff in terms of manageability - WMI and group policies are two areas I can think of which were improved.

  12. #27

    Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    As regards to the next version of Windows I would suggest that many of us here, and in industry would be more prepared to adopt that rather than Vista due to the fact most of use would have Server 2008 installed and configured correctly by this time.
    Er sort of. I'm expecting to have W2k8 DCs, W2k8 terminal servers and all the other guff running on Linux. I'm most of the way there too, with only 3 file servers and DNS/DHCP left....

    Client side, most places will be thin clients talking to afore mentioned terminal servers. With only a select few systems being desktop PCs (techy PCs, Science, Technology) and as to if these run Vista, I doubt it.
    Last edited by Geoff; 17th April 2008 at 09:29 AM.

  13. #28

    Gatt's Avatar
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    I'm also planning to migrate to Win2k8 as soon as possible
    Still need a Win2k3 TS for some thin clients as rdesktop isnt fully compat with RDP6.1 (problems mappnig USB Keys & Printers connect to the TC's) - do like the look of RemoteApps though!

    Got one suite with Vista here but got a few issues which i'm hoping will be sorted when we get a Win2k8 DC in place..
    Most of our other PCs arent fully vista capable so will prob be sticking with XP on the whole.

    Looking at going Virtual, so will prob be making use of Win2k8's Hyper-V tech.

  14. #29
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    *Cough*Windows ME*Cough*

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    From what i remember XP was RTM very soon after windows 2000, around 18 months after i think. But the difference was that xp's release wasn't viewed as a failure of win2k, or resulted in xp cannibalising the still relatively new
    win2k product.

    I think Windows 7 is going to be released under different circumstances, by the time it comes around Vista penetration in the enterprise will probably be woefully low, so it will be a case of learning from the Vista mistakes, ensuring better performance of the OS and making it enteprise friendly. Unfortunately the sticking point will be Microsofts desire to include new features in the forthcoming OS....if they scale back their ambitions and provide an OS that compliments the Windows server 2008 product they may be able to get it out for late 2009. I think a lot will depend on where enteprises are in their hardware refresh cycle but for most XP should be good for atleast another 2 to 3 years. And if it's going to be supported until 2014 then i suspect a lot of companies will not bother with moving to windows 7 until it's unavoidable.

    XP is the great survivor.

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