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Windows Vista Thread, Is Vista as bad as they make out? in Technical; I tried Vista but got pissed off with it. I got a blue screen many times, turned out it didn’t ...
  1. #16

    FN-GM's Avatar
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    I tried Vista but got pissed off with it. I got a blue screen many times, turned out it didn’t like my sound card. So I decided to buy one that properly supports Vista. Guess what more problems. The start menu crashed from time to time, and got worse. The issue with file copying got on my wick. Another issue was installing my printer. Then one day I thought why am I doing this? I don’t do anything in Vista that I can’t do in XP. So I decided to change back to XP.

    Z

  2. #17

    localzuk's Avatar
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    My reasons for thinking vista is not a good upgrade option:

    1. Realistic specs are too high. Most PC's in our school had 512Mb ram or less until last summer, when the new batch were bought which have 1GB.
    2. It isn't very stable - random freezes and crashes are regular
    3. The layout means a learning curve which hasn't been seen in the windows world since the transition from Windows 3.1.1 to Windows 95.
    4. Backwards compatibility with 16bit and some 32bit apps is poor (ie. non-existent for 16bit). There is a lot of educational software that fits into this category.
    5. Schools don't have the time or money to retrain people to use the new feel of the system. Many staff now feel comfortable doing things in the way they do. Changing this would lower productivity greatly.
    6. SIMS.net is not supported on it as yet, nor is FMS.
    7. Upgrading to Vista would also mean upgrading to Office 2007, as 2003 is not fully compatible with Vista from what I've read and been told. This also leads to problems with SIMS.net.
    8. There is another release of Windows due out in 2010, which according to Microsoft, is on a strict timetable. Paying for the whole upgrade process now, when a new version will come out in 2 years is not a good idea. Especially as BSF will come in and steam-roller over everything.
    9. The added security isn't an important factor for me, as my network is now secure enough to prevent unauthorised access, virus propogation etc...
    10. Disk I/O problems are a pain in the neck. Unzipping a 2Mb file should take a few seconds, but instead could take upto 30 minutes. So a third party program has to be installed to get around this problem. File copying is the same, but a third party program couldn't solve this.

    I'm sure there are a few more too.

  3. #18
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    I'm not over impressed but i'm starting to like it since i've stuck with it on my work desktop and it only has 1Gb of RAM. My main gripe is the need for 'at least' a 128 meg GPU just to run the jazzy new GUI features it's just too heavy.

    -----------------------------------
    @torledo



    I would just like to add that although there are better firewalls if MS has turned it on by default then most of the 'worm' incidences of 2002/03 could of been avoided and should of been concidered essential. It should still be used now IMHO unless you sub it for something else or you have NAP you are open to potential problems.
    You're right about the worm incidences......infact i believe it was the worst of the lot Sasser that triggered microsoft to include a firewall in sp2 - but i don't see it's use in corporate environments. If corporate firewalls were letting sasser through open ports in 2003/2004 what would windows firewall have done differently if Microsoft were unaware of the exploit ? Surely just as corporate firewall admins were reactive to the threat - so were microsoft by bundling a host fw in sp2. And the window firewall did nothing a perimeter firewall wouldn't do in the case of the worm attacks of a few years ago.

    Also, if anyones actually implementing NAP i'd like to know.

  4. #19

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    You're right about the worm incidences......infact i believe it was the worst of the lot Sasser that triggered microsoft to include a firewall in sp2
    Windows did already have a protection mechanism built into Windows XP in SP1 and I think even in the original release called ICF (internet connection firewall) which was quite capable of stopping the Sasser and Blaster worms but it was not enabled by default. SP2s inclusion of a more configurable and flashy firewall was I think mainly because of those worms but its main improvement, from a worm prevention standpoint was the fact that it was enabled by default.

  5. #20

    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    Many staff now feel comfortable doing things in the way they do. Changing this would lower productivity greatly.
    And to echo many other comments - Vista doesn't bring enough useful features to make it appeal to professionals and its downsides cancel any improvements out.

    I'm personally worried that MS will take the opportunity with XP SP3 to cripple XP systems (e.g require same hardware/memory that Vista needs) just to make Vista look attractive.

    But if I'm lucky - no software will rely on SP3 and I can just stick with SP2


    regards

    Simon

  6. #21
    Pete10141748's Avatar
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    Ive been using Vista at home and at work for a few months now, and I have yet to report a single major productivity-reducing problem - honesty!


    My Vista Basic laptop (1GB RAM, 2.0Gig AMD Sempron, no SP1 yet) runs Office 2003 with no problems, we have test installed SIMS and no complaints there, all our software works (as we left behind the old 16bit programs now anyway in favour of newer software, which frankly is better), our printers installed fine.

    The only problem we've had is that one of the "Toner replacement" wizards doesn't work propery on Vista for one of our older printers - this printer is being replaced in a month anyway as it's 3+ years old, and leaking



    My home PC runs Vista Home Premium (3GB RAM, 3.0Gig Intel Core2Duo, pre-SP1 as well) and while I'm aware that is well over the minimum spec, I haven't had a singe problem yet, and the kit means that (hopefully!) I'm somewhat future-proofed as well.. I hope!
    All my software from my XP machine works, my printer installed without an issue, connects to my wireless, communicates with my xbox360........
    Despite is being pre-SP1, I have had no real issue with the file transfer speeds / extracting / copying speeds.

    The two very minor problems I have encountered so far;
    1) Pubishing a Flash MX file as an animated .gif - the new Windows Media Viewer does not "play" the animation, but this was easily remidied by opening the file in something like GOM player instead, which I already use for other things anyway.

    2) Twice IE7 has failed to open when I click on the icon - Task Manager say it is running, but no window opens. However, I suspect that this is (at least partly) the fault of IE7, not explicity Vista?



    On the plus side, being a "visual" person, I love the look of Vista, and using XP now looks (and dare I say, almost feels) dated. I accept that the majority of people rely on "doing X this way as thats the way we have always done it using XP" which of course is fine; it's just not the way I think about it.

    To me, an OS is merely another piece of software. I woudn't expect to get an new version of Flash, and it be exactly the same as the previous version; what would be the point?
    I know that talking about Flash isn't the same as Windows, which people use everyday for everything, but in my mind the same applies. Just because something is different, doesn't make it bad, and as IT people I think we should be willing to look past the initial "change, oo-er, XP is good, don't want to move on" and so forth which is the general feeling I get from reading most of the posts in this section.

    As for the additional hardware requirements, has it not already occured that other companies' software will being wanting more requirements as well?
    I know most of the Educational software requires very little, and I agree that Vista for schools is not a good idea yet (mostly because of the cost of upgrading the hardware), but industry-standard software will only continue to get bigger and hungrier for resources - after all, it's how software and hardware developers make their money, isn't it?;
    "Here's some new software - oh wait, you need to buy some more RAM to use it.... see out partner company X..."
    I remember making this comment in a post a while ago somewhere, but I truely believe that most of the "Vista bashing" is down to fear of change, dependance on XP, and (for some non-techy folk) the fact that XP is all they have ever used (having not been using computers to go through the 95-98-ME-XP changes).

    Closing comments; I love Vista. It's big, flash, good lookin' and pleasant to use provided you spend a little time to actually learn this new bit of kit.


  7. #22

    localzuk's Avatar
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    'Big Flash and good looking' isn't a good enough business case i'm afraid :P

  8. #23
    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    @ torledo: alot of corporate firewall became useless at this time as once a worm was inside the perimiter it was open season. People can bring in infected laptops or open email attachments you name it but if all the XP clients had the ICF enabled it would of provided another layer of protection as always your security should be multiple layers.


    @ SYNACK: the first firewall 'Internet Connection Firewall' is the one i was really refering too this should of been on by default from day one in XP.

  9. #24
    Sirbendy's Avatar
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    I've got a vista drive and an Xp drive in my righ, and I pick and choose at boot what I wish to run.

    Vista annoys me because of:

    UAC - I got shot of it.

    Clunkiness - WTF is the logic of putting "run" that deep in the menu? Arse.

    Telnet? Arse.

    "Java doesn't support Aero, you have been temporarily downgraded"? Arse.

    "Media Corrupt, run Scandisk" on every USB drive? Arse.

    Bloat - I'm sorry..11gb for a clean OS install? Laughter.

    Execution speed - I don't want eye candy, I want quick. Kill some Aero effects and it's quick enough.

    Ram needs - 1gb? Get stuffed. I have 2, I like having plenty left.

    General needs - Aero? Bin. Do you use your OS, or look at it and admire the pretty? High end graphics? Bog off.

    Plus the OS was late, the feature set isn't what it should have been, and for the time and effort, it should have been so much more...

    That said, it's a nice change, and I can live with it..and XP does look dated in comparison, but I'm waiting for Windows 7 now...XPSP3 and Windows 7..Vista's just a bit of an "ME" blip in my view..
    Last edited by Sirbendy; 20th March 2008 at 01:02 PM.

  10. #25
    Ryan's Avatar
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    In my limited experience of Vista (normally fixing other peoples' laptops), i have only this to say:

    It's certainly very shiny. I've used the classic gray interface for XP for years. It's a "get stuff done" environment. I don't need everything to look so fecking glossy thanks.

    The constant hand-holding makes me want to cry. "Are you sure you want to install this?" "Are you sure you want to change this?" YES I'M BLOODY SURE.

    It remains a pointless upgrade in my opinion.

    Vista = XP, Now With Added Shiny!

    Quote Originally Posted by SirBendy
    Arse.

  11. #26
    torledo's Avatar
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    The trouble of thinking of Vista as this stopgap or ME mk2....then waiting for windows 7 to come along is we have no idea on what to expect with the next OS and the 2010 release is a tad unrealistic. Like anything else it's a roadmap, so anything can and will change.

    Particularly, as unless MS reverse the trend started with Vista of the bloat and the greatly increased PC spec requirements, corporate IT isn't going to touch Windows 7 either. I just don't see MS reversing and admitting defeat then introducing windows 7 as this more straightforward, simplified OS with a smaller footprint.

    I wouldn't hold my breath that MS will turn the clock back for the next version of Windows. If anything i would expect them to continue on the path started with Vista, expect be even more aggressive with this strategy. I dread to think how many versions they're going to make available.

  12. #27
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    The trouble of thinking of Vista as this stopgap or ME mk2....then waiting for windows 7 to come along is we have no idea on what to expect with the next OS and the 2010 release is a tad unrealistic. Like anything else it's a roadmap, so anything can and will change.

    Particularly, as unless MS reverse the trend started with Vista of the bloat and the greatly increased PC spec requirements, corporate IT isn't going to touch Windows 7 either. I just don't see MS reversing and admitting defeat then introducing windows 7 as this more straightforward, simplified OS with a smaller footprint.

    I wouldn't hold my breath that MS will turn the clock back for the next version of Windows. If anything i would expect them to continue on the path started with Vista, expect be even more aggressive with this strategy. I dread to think how many versions they're going to make available.
    Essentially i agree with both Sirbendy and Ryan......XP interface does look a little tired, and there's nothing wrong with a design refresh...After all XP design is now over 7 years old. But at the end of the day i use any OS to accomplish a task and hopefully be productive, not to stare and admire. What happens when the Vista visual gloss and novelty wears off ? You're left with it's shortcomings on a daily basis.

    Not unlike many a marriage.

  13. #28
    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    I think looking at the minwin project that MS are looking for it to be more modular and we might get a smaller install with Win7 and be able to install whatever extras you need (holds breath)

    I know MS deny this but I suspect that Singularity is what they're waiting for and untill then they'll keep hacking out refreshes of NT. They see the desktop era as coming to an end at some point and want to be ready for it.

    http://research.microsoft.com/os/singularity/

  14. #29
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    I think looking at the minwin project that MS are looking for it to be more modular and we might get a smaller install with Win7 and be able to install whatever extras you need (holds breath)

    I know MS deny this but I suspect that Singularity is what they're waiting for and untill then they'll keep hacking out refreshes of NT. They see the desktop era as coming to an end at some point and want to be ready for it.

    http://research.microsoft.com/os/singularity/
    Bill has been talking about the 'future' for the windows operating system for years, and while the R&D is obviously there it's pie in the sky stuff as long as MS main concern is their annual revenue from windows sales.

    I completely agree... 'Built on NT' stickers for the forseeable future.

    I'd put more faith in google developing the next gen OS for general purpose computing than Microsoft. That's how innovative they aren't.....what else explains them pinching ideas from OSX, cos they haven't got any of they're own.
    Last edited by torledo; 20th March 2008 at 04:11 PM.

  15. #30
    Sirbendy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    Essentially i agree with both Sirbendy and Ryan......XP interface does look a little tired, and there's nothing wrong with a design refresh...After all XP design is now over 7 years old. But at the end of the day i use any OS to accomplish a task and hopefully be productive, not to stare and admire. What happens when the Vista visual gloss and novelty wears off ? You're left with it's shortcomings on a daily basis.

    Not unlike many a marriage.
    ooh, you cynic. Marriage brings boobs though..not all bad..

    OK, OK...I'll go and finish this imaging..

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