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Windows Vista Thread, Becta still don't like Vista. in Technical; Tit for tat, Microsoft don't like BECTA either http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1...9292043,00.htm...
  1. #16

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    Tit for tat, Microsoft don't like BECTA either http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1...9292043,00.htm

  2. #17

    Gatt's Avatar
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    Upset Microsoft at BETT yesterday after telling them what I thought about Vista..

    Nice for home users.. cr*p for business/education users

    Lots of compatability problems, locking it down in Group Policy (waiting for Server 2008 when i'll re-eval this), cost of upgrading - in terms of hardware - and schools generally have less than a shoe-string budget for this..

  3. #18


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    To be honest some of Becta's comments are inaccurate, in the example of the Microsoft Office 2007. Sure, by default documents are saved in *.docx, but can still be saved in *.doc and secondly, they're obviously never heard of the Microsoft Compatibility Pack which is free.
    The point is that neither .doc or MOOXML meet the industry standard specification (ODF) that BECTA (and several other countries) have already agreed upon. Nearly every other office product in existence complies with BECTA's requirements, except MS office who are attempting to further lock schools into their upgrade cycle by introducing another format (that even office 2007 doesn't comply with). If you run any version of office, the very least you should do is install the ODF compatibility pack.
    http://www.sun.com/software/star/odf...p#odfplugin1.1

  4. #19

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    @localzuk - The reason the school upgraded from Office XP to Office 2007 was Capita's fault. Sims.NET will not export data to anything below Office 2003. The compatibility pack has worked absolutely fine on Office XP until the school roll out Office 2007 everywhere sometime in the near future. It also fits in with Microsoft life-cycle policies, so we skipped Office 2003 and went directly to 2007.

    Going from Office 2000/XP/2003 to 2007 there is a learning curve (I am not denying that), but a lot of the tools/features are the same. Office 2007's successor will continue to build on the new interface, just as Microsoft have done since Office '95 to Office 2003. If you strategically plan to upgrade products and implement training then you're going to minimise problems. If you do one and not the other, of course you're going to have problems.

    Open source could be a consideration, however most users are happy with XP. They use it at work and at home. I don't know any staff user who uses Linux at home (for example). You could debate moving from XP to an open source solution could also be painful for the end user.
    Using an open source solution with Terminal Services, just to avoid upgrading to Vista at some point in the future? We'll have to disagree on that one. At some point you'll upgrade computer hardware and 99% probability, it'll come with Windows Vista. Have you ever thought why isn't Linux installed on PC's just as Microsoft Windows is?

    Well Becta aren't really very influential are they? Any school without an IT specialist can and do hire consultants who advise them accordingly. I've never come across any school who have said "oh but Becta have said this". Becta literally touch the surface. Any school want answers and solutions to a whole range of issues that Becta do not address.

    @greenfieldsupport - The compatibility pack does work on Office 2000 SP3 or later.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Have you ever thought why isn't Linux installed on PC's just as Microsoft Windows is?
    Monopoly, OEM agreements ...

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    @localzuk - The reason the school upgraded from Office XP to Office 2007 was Capita's fault. Sims.NET will not export data to anything below Office 2003. The compatibility pack has worked absolutely fine on Office XP until the school roll out Office 2007 everywhere sometime in the near future. It also fits in with Microsoft life-cycle policies, so we skipped Office 2003 and went directly to 2007.

    Going from Office 2000/XP/2003 to 2007 there is a learning curve (I am not denying that), but a lot of the tools/features are the same. Office 2007's successor will continue to build on the new interface, just as Microsoft have done since Office '95 to Office 2003. If you strategically plan to upgrade products and implement training then you're going to minimise problems. If you do one and not the other, of course you're going to have problems.
    The time spent on ICT training is minimal in most schools due to the fact there is so much else to do. So if considerable retraining is required, it may as well include a cost saving somewhere else - such as in software licensing.

    Open source could be a consideration, however most users are happy with XP. They use it at work and at home. I don't know any staff user who uses Linux at home (for example). You could debate moving from XP to an open source solution could also be painful for the end user.
    Using an open source solution with Terminal Services, just to avoid upgrading to Vista at some point in the future? We'll have to disagree on that one. At some point you'll upgrade computer hardware and 99% probability, it'll come with Windows Vista. Have you ever thought why isn't Linux installed on PC's just as Microsoft Windows is?
    First, Linux and FreeDos are an option with many HP workstations and now some Dell stations too. So they wouldn't have a windows license. It is an increasing trend as more and more people realise how much money Microsoft is actually costing them.

    Second, spending £4 - 5k a year on licenses just because staff use XP at home is silly - we provide all our teachers with their own laptop. There is no reason for them to be using their own machines here.

    Well Becta aren't really very influential are they? Any school without an IT specialist can and do hire consultants who advise them accordingly. I've never come across any school who have said "oh but Becta have said this". Becta literally touch the surface. Any school want answers and solutions to a whole range of issues that Becta do not address.
    Well yes, Becta are influential. They produce approved suppliers lists via procurement to save schools money (Catalist at the moment). The suppliers that work with schools will most of the time work to Becta guidelines (such as European Electronique, CSE, TME, RM, HP, Dell etc... They all work to Becta guidelines on many issues). They are a lot more influential than you may realise. Oh, and the LEA's which schools are part of definitely *do* listen to Becta.

  7. #22


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    Using an open source solution with Terminal Services, just to avoid upgrading to Vista at some point in the future?
    There were compelling reasons when we moved to linux/MSTS four years ago. Now there are just more reasons.

    Have you ever thought why isn't Linux installed on PC's just as Microsoft Windows is?
    you know Asus are expecting to sell 5million linux eeepc's this year. I'm sure Gates will jump on the bandwagon, but the point that Becta are making is that if you enter into an MS schools agreement you will be paying MS for your linux boxes regardless of whether you run windows. that is unfair.

    I'm not going to exclude students from working at home because they run linux,mac or windows. By deploying office2007 without considering ODF you are doing just that.
    Last edited by CyberNerd; 11th January 2008 at 04:24 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    The point is that neither .doc or MOOXML meet the industry standard specification (ODF) that BECTA (and several other countries) have already agreed upon. Nearly every other office product in existence complies with BECTA's requirements, except MS office who are attempting to further lock schools into their upgrade cycle by introducing another format (that even office 2007 doesn't comply with). If you run any version of office, the very least you should do is install the ODF compatibility pack.
    http://www.sun.com/software/star/odf...p#odfplugin1.1

    Microsoft.... industry standard.....??

    lol!!!!!


    if you put them together it would almost be as big an oxymoron as
    microsoft works!!!

  9. #24
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    "There are three R's to windows tech support: "Restart, Reboot, Reinstall"" - <quinn>

    hmmm
    your missing "remove" :P

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit View Post
    Pity EVERY SINGLE stand at BETT is using Vista (apart from apple).... talk about mixed messages
    Strange, I've been here a week and most of the stands I've been to have been running good old XP, and as for us we are using the Sun Java Desktop System for Solaris

  11. #26

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    Actually ... you can find Vista running on our stand ... on my MacBook Pro ... gives me the chance to get flamed by both Vista Haters and Apple Haters!

    I was thinking of adding CC4 onto it to round things off!

  12. #27

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    @GrumbleDook: *cough* You forgot linux users

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    I saw quite a few exhibitors at Bett yesterday running good old xp. And Apple didn't like it because I lingered a bit too long on their stand wearing my ubuntu sweatshirt whilst they were having photos taken....

    :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    I think I'll wear mine too... though it's a toss between Tux top or Ubuntu top...
    Quote Originally Posted by Edu-IT View Post
    Take both and visit the stand more than once.
    And do what I did and get your colleague or a passer-by to take your picture there whilst doing a double thumbs down......! They didn't like it!
    Last edited by tech_guy; 11th January 2008 at 09:50 PM.

  14. #29

    webman's Avatar
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    @tech_guy: I shall have to try and remember to do that, thanks

  15. #30


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    slashdot has picked up this story:
    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/11/2242208

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