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Windows Server 2000/2003 Thread, Roaming Profiles going screwy in Technical; Originally Posted by Number6 So am I - but one day the roaming profiles "mysteriously" vanished, to be replaced with ...
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    solitaire89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number6 View Post
    So am I - but one day the roaming profiles "mysteriously" vanished, to be replaced with folder redirection. Hardly anyone even noticed!

    Apart from the vastly improved logon times
    Haha - I get the feeling that there would be one person who would notice... And that WOULD be dangerous. Maybe when he's off sick......

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    busby's Avatar
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    Cool.

    Thanks

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    solitaire89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdarrmonkey View Post
    This is all lies (sorry to be blunt, but fobbing customers off is one thing I cannot abide).
    That's the conclusion that I've come to... but like I say, I know precious little, so I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong Now things are different, and I'd be asking for details and to be shown. Except we have no support at all....

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    solitaire89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number6 View Post
    If you have the time and patience then this will give you some insight into RP registry structures.

    User Profile Structure
    Thanks, wil have a look. Time - not at work, patience - definatly, I'm a it tech!

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    solitaire89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdarrmonkey View Post
    The ntuser.dat and ntuser.log files are the user part ('hive') of the registry, and they're delivered with the profile. They form the HKEY_CURRENT_USER part, whereas system.dat and friends from the workstation's Windows folder form the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE part. If that's what they meant by database, they explained it very poorly indeed; they shouldn't get merged though, that is really screwy.
    I agree - poor explaination if that IS what they were on about. Hmm... If that's on the local machine though, I've run hive cleanups before (for other reasons), and that doesn't fix it. Would it?!

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    azrael78's Avatar
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    Cool

    Have you had a look in the event viewer on affected machines?

    I ask this as it could be other issues that are causing profile issues, such as group policy getting its knickers in a twist and such.

    The easiest way to grab event viewer data is to do the following:

    1) Ensure that the user account and PC definately reproduce the problem.
    2) Clear the event log fully
    3) Reboot the PC
    4) Login as troubled user - load Word or whatever you like, then logout.
    5) Export the event log information given.

    That way - you have a consistent set of information on the problem that you can recall at will on any PC.

    Give that a go - see what you come up with, as already stated, large roaming profiles can cause horrible issues - so can logging on numerous PCs with roaming profiles (of the same user) and then logging off randomly, which some of ours here are famous for.

    We'd take them all to mandatory but it's all politics...

    HTH,

    Az

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    solitaire89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azrael78 View Post
    1) Ensure that the user account and PC definately reproduce the problem.
    The problem is that once the profile has gone - it's gone. Subsequent logins from the user just give fast log in speeds with a dodge profile. That profile then follows them round from machine to machine until it's fixed...

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    Cool

    So - they login with their normal profile - do things but upon logout their profile is deleted.
    Subsequent logins give them some kind of profile that doesn't work (does it have any errors when they login at this point - like can't find the profile etc?) which then roams with them until that profile is fixed?

    If I'm understanding this right (and I hope I am) - then it's like the profile unload part isn't working properly.

    I would assume that you have 'delete cached copies of the roaming profile' group policy set.
    Do you have any other profile-based policies set?

    Anything set on the server profile area like file-screens or quotas?

    What filesize is the ntuser.dat (once it's broken) - 256KB by any chance?

    Az

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    solitaire89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azrael78 View Post
    So - they login with their normal profile - do things but upon logout their profile is deleted.
    Subsequent logins give them some kind of profile that doesn't work (does it have any errors when they login at this point - like can't find the profile etc?) which then roams with them until that profile is fixed?
    Simple answer - I don't know. I don't know if the issue occures at the last log out with the good profile, or the log in immediatley before the screwed one is applied. There are never any error messages at all to suggest that anything is out of the ordinary, not when it first displays the issue, and not when they log back in with the odd profile. And yes, you are correct that it roams with them until fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by azrael78 View Post
    I would assume that you have 'delete cached copies of the roaming profile' group policy set.
    Do you have any other profile-based policies set?
    Yes, 'delete cached copies of the roaming profile' is enabled (Please note, I didn't set this up, so please bear with me, I'm learning all this as we go along... ), and I can't see any others, except "prevent roaming profile changes from propogating to the server" is disabled

    Quote Originally Posted by azrael78 View Post
    What filesize is the ntuser.dat (once it's broken) - 256KB by any chance?
    how did you guess??!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by azrael78 View Post

    What filesize is the ntuser.dat (once it's broken) - 256KB by any chance?

    Az
    This is the old "Symantec" problem isn't it?

    Anyway, that is simply corrupted ntuser.dat files. Do you have a backed up copy of a known good ntuser hive that you can restore to a "faulty" user to test this theory?

    I still say "say no to roaming profiles", never had a good experience with them, nor have my colleagues here.

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    Cool

    I would love to know what causes this - we have a similar issue here to a much less of an extent yet I've never managed to find a single method to reliably reproduce the problem.

    The quickest 'fix' is to simply wipe the profile and let it rebuild - but every single time it gets corrupted it's so hard to find out what happened.

    I'm sorry if it seems like I'm asking too many questions solitaire89 but I'm aware of how frustrating these 'undocumented features' can be and have been working for some time to isolate the cause and find a solution.

    What size school are you? Primary/Secondary - I was going to suggest you turn off 'delete cached copies of roaming profiles' so that you can have an idea of what stage the problem occurs - but in a secondary environment where many people roam - it would be less than a good idea, particularly if all of your users have roaming profiles.

    I'm going to kick things up a gear here and see if I can grab a corrupt profile before my colleagues fix it and try to wrangle the info out of the user... hurrah!

    I will keep you posted though on anything I find out, even if it's pointless to us - it may well help you or someone else with a similar issue later

    Az

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    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

    have you tried the user profile cleanup tool

    BTW are you using xp sp3 now as i have had problems with profiles not unloading when the user logs off
    ever since i installed sp3

    The User hive cleanup tool along with delprof fixed the issue for us
    Overview
    The User Profile Hive Cleanup service helps to ensure user sessions are completely terminated when a user logs off. System processes and applications occasionally maintain connections to registry keys in the user profile after a user logs off. In those cases the user session is prevented from completely ending. This can result in problems when using Roaming User Profiles in a server environment or when using locked profiles as implemented through the Shared Computer Toolkit for Windows XP.

    On Windows 2000 you can benefit from this service if the application event log shows event id 1000 where the message text indicates that the profile is not unloading and that the error is "Access is denied". On Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 either event ids 1517 and 1524 indicate the same profile unload problem.

    To accomplish this the service monitors for logged off users that still have registry hives loaded. When that happens the service determines which application have handles opened to the hives and releases them. It logs the application name and what registry keys were left open. After this the system finishes unloading the profile.
    Last edited by round2it; 25th February 2010 at 04:00 PM.

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    It's not after they change password is it? As the roaming profile will not load after the user changes their password in with XP SP3 unless you have applied a hotfix or rebooted the machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number6 View Post
    This is the old "Symantec" problem isn't it?
    Eh?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Number6 View Post
    Anyway, that is simply corrupted ntuser.dat files. Do you have a backed up copy of a known good ntuser hive that you can restore to a "faulty" user to test this theory?
    Not as such - but am I still going to be in the situation where it fixes the immediate problem, but not the root cause?

    ARGH - KILL ALL ROAMING PROFILES!

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    Quote Originally Posted by azrael78 View Post
    I would love to know what causes this - we have a similar issue here to a much less of an extent yet I've never managed to find a single method to reliably reproduce the problem.

    The quickest 'fix' is to simply wipe the profile and let it rebuild - but every single time it gets corrupted it's so hard to find out what happened.

    I'm sorry if it seems like I'm asking too many questions solitaire89 but I'm aware of how frustrating these 'undocumented features' can be and have been working for some time to isolate the cause and find a solution.

    What size school are you? Primary/Secondary - I was going to suggest you turn off 'delete cached copies of roaming profiles' so that you can have an idea of what stage the problem occurs - but in a secondary environment where many people roam - it would be less than a good idea, particularly if all of your users have roaming profiles.

    I'm going to kick things up a gear here and see if I can grab a corrupt profile before my colleagues fix it and try to wrangle the info out of the user... hurrah!

    I will keep you posted though on anything I find out, even if it's pointless to us - it may well help you or someone else with a similar issue later

    Az
    I can't reproduce it either... As I said - utterly and entirely random. And we employ the same "fix", but still have to re-do the e-mail and re-direction.

    We're a "whole way through" school - babes in arms to VIth form... And yes, lots of roaming!

    If you could keep me posted, that would be great - Thanks

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