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Windows 8 Thread, Gartner review says Windows 8 “bad” for desktop users in Technical; Originally Posted by Geoff Don't forget MS posted a loss for the first time ever. Microsoft posts first-ever quarterly loss ...
  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Don't forget MS posted a loss for the first time ever.

    Microsoft posts first-ever quarterly loss ? The Register

    So MS will be under pressure from shareholders to perform and make a profit again. I wouldn't like to be working there atm!
    most of the loss is attributable to a one-off charge. The rest of the article indicates some strong revenue numbers.

    Windows 8 is just an example of Microsoft adjusting. What would be worse if i was a shareholder or employee would be if Microsoft acted like some other companies of late who've seen Apple and Android take a big chunk out of their dominant position in a particular market....in other words be content to sit on your laurels until it's too late to adjust. It's not really a risk being so focused on being tablet friendly with their next product, because the PC OS market doesn't exactly have a competitor that can dislodge Microsoft from it's dominant position. And anyway, competitors would only be taking an increased share in a market that isn't growing anywhere near as fast as tablets.

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    the full Vanity Fair article "Microsoft's lost decade"

    How Microsoft Lost Its Mojo: Steve Ballmer and Corporate America

    Once upon a time, Microsoft dominated the tech industry; indeed, it was the wealthiest corporation in the world. But since 2000, as Apple, Google, and Facebook whizzed by, it has fallen flat in every arena it entered: e-books, music, search, social networking, etc., etc. Talking to former and current Microsoft executives, Kurt Eichenwald finds the fingers pointing at C.E.O. Steve Ballmer, Bill Gates’s successor, as the man who led them astray.

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    Surely this means Android is also a catastrophe? If Valve wants to sell Android games for smartphones and tablets from within their Steam app, they have to give Google a 30% cut before Valve can take their 30% cut.

    Using Shadowgun THD as an example. Madfinger Games currently sells the game for £3.75 in the Play Store which means Google takes £1.13 and the developer gets the remaining 70% (£2.62).

    If Shadowgun was sold through the Steam app, Google would still keep £1.13, but Valve would take £0.79 and the developer would only get £1.83!

    Why would any games developer want to add an additional middle-man (a.k.a Valve) into the equation instead of selling games directly through the Play Store?

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Surely this means Android is also a catastrophe? If Valve wants to sell Android games for smartphones and tablets from within their Steam app, they have to give Google a 30% cut before Valve can take their 30% cut.

    Using Shadowgun THD as an example. Madfinger Games currently sells the game for £3.75 in the Play Store which means Google takes £1.13 and the developer gets the remaining 70% (£2.62).

    If Shadowgun was sold through the Steam app, Google would still keep £1.13, but Valve would take £0.79 and the developer would only get £1.83!

    Why would any games developer want to add an additional middle-man (a.k.a Valve) into the equation instead of selling games directly through the Play Store?
    As if games aren't expencive enough, they are nearing $150 for a new release Xbox game here (some titles) and I'm sure they are on the way to $200. Its insane, two new games or a whole new Xbox 360. At least phones have not fallen to this insane pricing yet, I guess that is what Steam is morrning.

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    Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Surely this means Android is also a catastrophe? If Valve wants to sell Android games for smartphones and tablets from within their Steam app, they have to give Google a 30% cut before Valve can take their 30% cut.

    Using Shadowgun THD as an example. Madfinger Games currently sells the game for £3.75 in the Play Store which means Google takes £1.13 and the developer gets the remaining 70% (£2.62).

    If Shadowgun was sold through the Steam app, Google would still keep £1.13, but Valve would take £0.79 and the developer would only get £1.83!

    Why would any games developer want to add an additional middle-man (a.k.a Valve) into the equation instead of selling games directly through the Play Store?
    Once you have your own app store (Steam) on the android handset you don't have to give Google anything. So Valve is actually undercutting Google.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Once you have your own app store (Steam) on the android handset you don't have to give Google anything.
    I know there are apps for things like music, groceries, eBay etc. that do not use Google's in-app billing system to pay for items, but are there actually any app store apps that you can download directly through Google Play and pay for apps using a credit/debit card or PayPal? I have never come across any so far.

    Amazon's App Store doesn't really count because you have to tick the "Unknown sources" checkbox and side-load the APK.

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    There are plenty of android app stores around, without using play.
    Heres a list:
    15 Ways to install Android Apps Without the Android Market

    you might need to use a web browser to download them - but not sure why it "wouldn't count" as an alternative to play if you have to use an installer??

  8. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    There are plenty of android app stores around, without using Play.
    That's true, but don't you think most people would prefer to use the standard app store because it's less hassle compared to the alternatives?

    Why is Gabe complaining about something that may or may not hypothetically happen with Windows, but not OS X, Ubuntu or Android (which all allow you to install third-party apps)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    That's true, but don't you think most people would prefer to use the standard app store because it's less hassle compared to the alternatives?
    People install other browsers. In the old days of IE6 that did hold true though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Why is Gabe complaining about something that may or may not hypothetically happen with Windows, but not OS X, Ubuntu or Android (which all allow you to install third-party apps)?
    what he said was:
    “We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality.
    https://allthingsd.com/20120725/valv...ws-8-and-more/

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    “We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality.
    An interesting POV. Personally I can't see "top-tier" OEMs living the PC space over Win8. HP might have done (recently) but if they had it wouldn't have had anything to do with Win8. Really can't see Acer, Lenovo, Dell or HP backing out of the market. In fact Win8 would probably allow them to target the iMac with touchscreen AiO's much easier than they have to date.

    IMHO - Win8 is a disaster in the Business sector (who'd stick with Win7 or XP any way), but is probably whats needed for Windows to compete in the Home Entertainment sector.
    Last edited by tmcd35; 30th July 2012 at 09:32 AM.

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    GNU founder Stallman calls DRM’d Steam for Linux games "unethical" « Ars Technica

    RMS says Steam for Linux is better than Steam for Windows, but not by much.
    The Linux desktop has historically been ignored by major commercial software developers due to the relatively small audience and technical issues like fragmentation. Steam’s arrival on Linux has largely been welcomed by Linux enthusiasts who recognize it as a big step towards legitimizing the Linux desktop as a consumer platform.

    But the prospect of the open source operating system attracting a rich ecosystem of proprietary DRM-encumbered computer games raises questions for some. Richard Stallman, the founder of GNU and the Free Software foundation, has issued a statement outlining what he views as the positive and negative consequences of this development.

    In his statement, he says that closed-source games are “unethical because they deny freedom to their users.” But he also believes that users are “better off” running them on an open Linux-based platform rather than Windows.

    “This development can do both harm and good. It might encourage GNU/Linux users to install these games, and it might encourage users of the games to replace Windows with GNU/Linux,” he wrote. “My guess is that the direct good effect will be bigger than the direct harm. But there is also an indirect effect: what does the use of these games teach people in our community?”

    He remains concerned that the availability of commercial games will detract from the message of freedom that is advanced by GNU and the free software movement. Success, he says, is not about popularity—it’s about freeing users from the kind of technical restrictions that DRM represents.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    IMHO - Win8 is a disaster in the Business sector (who'd stick with Win7 or XP any way),...
    You're right there Big biz 'struggling' to dump Windows XP

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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman_again View Post
    If business' are struggling to move away from XP, surely 6 year old Vista and 3 year old 7 are disasters in business, rather than an operating system that isn't even available yet?
    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 31st July 2012 at 01:23 PM.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    Surely 6 year old WindowsVista and 3 year old Windows7 are disasters in business, rather than an operating system that isn't even available yet?
    In what way? They aren't really the biggest of leaps forward from XP. Unless you have some old legacy software or some really picky bespoke apps you shouldn't experience many ills changing up from XP. Any problems you do experience are manageable.

    MetroUI and no start button in "classic desktop mode" is less manageable. I'm aware you can set it to boot into desktop by default, but the lack of proper start button and the instance of MetroUI on business desktops - that's disastrous!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    In what way? They aren't really the biggest of leaps forward from XP. Unless you have some old legacy software or some really picky bespoke apps you shouldn't experience many ills changing up from XP. Any problems you do experience are manageable.

    MetroUI and no start button in "classic desktop mode" is less manageable. I'm aware you can set it to boot into desktop by default, but the lack of proper start button and the instance of MetroUI on business desktops - that's disastrous!
    They aren't big leaps from XP, but 7 only has a 20% market share (according to the article linked) and as you rightly say its a manageable change. An operating system that available yet cannot be called a disaster when its easy to upgrade predecessors have such a little share of the market place and companies are needlessly clinging on to XP.

    Metro is just a full screen start menu. Its not as if you can multi-task when using the old start menu. The old start menu is a mono feature, just like metro (full screen start menu) and when setup how you want makes little difference. I think the main problem people have is that it not what they are used to, but that's just my opinion.



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