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Windows 8 Thread, Metro UI, looks like it's there to stay on the desktop in Technical; I thought it was that every other windows release was good? Ben...
  1. #16

    plexer's Avatar
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    I thought it was that every other windows release was good?

    Ben

  2. #17


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    Giving a single overall rating to an operating system is equally flawed because they change over time due to service packs, hotfixes, better drivers, security issues, etc.

    Windows XP
    Code:
    24/08/2001 (RTM) to 08/09/2002 = Bad
    09/09/2002 (SP1) to 24/08/2004 = Satisfactory
    25/08/2004 (SP2) to 21/04/2008 (SP3) = Good
    22/04/2008 to 27/04/2009 = Good
    28/04/2009 onwards = Very Bad
    Windows Vista
    Code:
    30/01/2007 (RTM) to 03/02/2008 = Bad
    04/02/2008 (SP1) to 27/04/2009 = Satisfactory
    28/04/2009 (SP2) to 22/02/2011 = Good
    23/02/2011 onwards = Bad

  3. #18

    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    confused. how can they go from good to bad overnight?

  4. #19

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    Bit crocky. XP is Very Bad since 2009 because of what exactly? There isn't anything much wrong that wasn't wrong in RTM with XP *today* (I only moved to Win7 recently because it was preinstalled on new h/w).

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    Bit crocky. XP is Very Bad since 2009 because of what exactly? There isn't anything much wrong that wasn't wrong in RTM with XP *today* (I only moved to Win7 recently because it was preinstalled on new h/w).
    I remember XP having issues at RTM which is why we left it till SP1, It was better than 98 but there were more issues with profiles unloading and GPOs etc. My memory is a little foggy going that far back though.


    XP today is a horror show, wireless support is junk compared to 7, network stack is a joke and inefficient as anything (just try file copies over a slow VPN). The OS is that old that it has had so much bolted onto it that it is a tad top heavy. .net 2 to 4 and inumerable patches, a few directX versions and a whole security overhall. This is before you deal with the inefficient mess that happens when you install XP on a remotely modern PC and you have to integrate practically all the drivers onto a slipstreamed CD just to get it to boot as none of the system hardware is included or was even thought of when XP was around if you can even find drivers for it. The old GDI system is hack, realy a single window corrupting the whole screen (dead window syndrome), Aero is much better as it is seporatly composeted and actually uses the avalible hardware. The sound system with only global sound hooks, 32 bit and the silly 3GB limit. Lack of quick start menu search (use it all the time). Single service at a time startup on boot and single kill on shutdown, little active memory caching (apart from the primative prefetch that usually ended up adding minutes to boot time if not cleared). No self healing for registry fault and major system file corruption, no proactive support for SMART HD diagnostics in the OS. More limited GPO objects, no native DVD/x264/xvid/divx/aac/mov/mp4 codecs.

    There is a lot to dislike about XP now that there is a better option in the same product line, hell I'd even include Vista SP1+ in that catagory. I agree with the assessment @Arthur made. Sure you can patch over some of XPs defficiencies with stacks and stacks of extra software and time and effort and complexity or you can just upgrade to an OS designed for modern hardware and save everyone the hassel.

  6. #21

    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    Yeah, XP has had it's day that's for sure. I remember getting on OEM disk a week before the official release and installing it on a 256MB PC133 Athlon 750 machine. It absolutely flew. I recently did an XP SP3 install onto 1.2Ghz Celeron laptop with 256MB DDR RAM, and teh word slow doesn't even begin to cover it. As Synack pointed out, XP has been so patched, bloated and added to that it simply makes sense to use a more modern OS that is more optimized for the task in hand on the same hardware that you were using XP on. I like 7 and Vista, and you really notice the lack of useful features when you go back to XP.

  7. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbieBurns View Post
    how can they go from good to bad overnight?
    When SP2 for Vista was released, there was no reason to stick with XP. When SP1 for Windows 7 was released, there was no reason to stick with Vista. It's that simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    XP is very bad since 2009 because of what exactly?
    Vista SP2 and Windows 7 were both released in that year. Even if you didn't upgrade straight away to Windows 7, Vista SP2 was a far better choice than XP given the hardware that was around at that time. I don't know about you, but a couple of years earlier in 2007, I built a brand new PC with a quad core processor (a Core 2 Quad Q6600 overclocked from 2.4GHz to 3.2GHz), 8GB RAM and a 150GB WD Raptor hard drive. Installing XP on that would have been a complete waste of time and money since the OS wouldn't have been able to take advantage of the hardware.

    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    There isn't anything much wrong that wasn't wrong in RTM with XP *today*
    What @SYNACK and @Dos_Box said!!! XP prior to SP2 wasn't particularly great and putting XP on a modern-day Core i5/i7 PC is beyond comprehension. Don't get me wrong, I used to like Windows XP (much like Windows 2000 before it), but its time has long since passed.

  8. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    When SP2 for Vista was released, there was no reason to stick with XP. When SP1 for Windows 7 was released, there was no reason to stick with Vista. It's that simple.


    Vista SP2 and Windows 7 were both released in that year. Even if you didn't upgrade straight away to Windows 7, Vista SP2 was a far better choice than XP given the hardware that was around at that time. I don't know about you, but a couple of years earlier in 2007, I built a brand new PC with a quad core processor (a Core 2 Quad Q6600 overclocked from 2.4GHz to 3.2GHz), 8GB RAM and a 150GB WD Raptor hard drive. Installing XP on that would have been a complete waste of time and money since the OS wouldn't have been able to take advantage of the hardware.


    What @SYNACK and @Dos_Box said!!! XP prior to SP2 wasn't particularly great and putting XP on a modern-day Core i5/i7 PC is beyond comprehension. Don't get me wrong, I used to like Windows XP (much like Windows 2000 before it), but its time has long since passed.
    great if you have 8gb quad core pcs. school im in now has fujitsu siemens e2500 until last week most had 512 ram and they are p4 iirc they are ht p4s but thats typical i find of school pcs. While win7 even x64 runs on them video drivers are missing and not avaliable so im not sure i want to rebuild anyway

  9. #24

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    great if you have 8gb quad core pcs. school im in now has fujitsu siemens e2500 until last week most had 512 ram and they are p4 iirc they are ht p4s but thats typical i find of school pcs. While win7 even x64 runs on them video drivers are missing and not avaliable so im not sure i want to rebuild anyway
    If all your ICT gear is 6-7 years old then you have bigger issues. The lack of WDM drivers just kills the Aero experience and sets you back to GDI loosing that advantage. Other than that you still get many of the benifits however they (despite some specific exceptions) won't be quick. Some of our old hps actually run faster than lenovos two years newer.

    Our PCs are not all quad core 8GB etc, many are simply 2GB with a modern dual core CPU - Intel 2GHz or above and DX9 integrated GPU. We are of course manitaining these by replacing out the oldest each year so these are the bottom of the food chain in most of the schools I deal with.

    7 32bit runs alright with 1GB but runs much better with SATA drives and DDR2 memory.

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    For the desktop however, it wouldn't surprise me if one of the first W8 apps is a Metro disabler, or even a method to keep Metro but to logon to the desktop straight away.
    [Shell]
    Command=2
    IconFile=Explorer.exe,3
    [Taskbar]
    Command=ToggleDesktop


    Save as .scf

    Create new task.

    Set to trigger at logon.

    ???

    DESKTOP!


    I tried it on Win8 running through VirtualBox, it works but it's a bit laggy. [Could be configuration problems.]

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    great if you have 8gb quad core pcs. school im in now has fujitsu siemens e2500 until last week most had 512 ram and they are p4 iirc they are ht p4s but thats typical i find of school pcs. While win7 even x64 runs on them video drivers are missing and not avaliable so im not sure i want to rebuild anyway
    Windows XP with 512Mb RAM? That'd be a nightmare on its own IMO.

    Obviously, if you have old hardware, you can't really look at updating to Windows 7 on it, but the bigger question here is why has your school let their IT get to the stage of having such old hardware? You can get refurbished Core2Duo machines with 2+GB RAM for 120 each. Even with the smallest budget you should still be able to do some replacements.

  12. #27


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    moneys been used elsewhere and suite replacement has been put on the backburner. iirc this school this year 30 netbooks (win7x64) and a new admin server have eaten the budget nd probably a few staff laptops

  13. #28

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    We have been testing Windows 8 out really looking at the Metro interface. We have apps for iphone, blackberry, android and windows mobile all under the brandname 'MyHighcliffe' which allow students to access their homework etc from their phone. We obviously had to start to look at Metro and play at getting an App written.

    Have to say - impressed with the interface and how quick development can be.

    Have a look at Windows 8 Metro Appsfor screenshots of our first school Metro App.

    Edit - just to say Apptavi is my 'out of school' work but somewhere I have taken to posting the odd thing...... I work at Highcliffe School in Dorset.

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    That looks quite good mathew, it is nice they are trying to simplify the app's development with win8 and that they are trying somewhat to combine the tablet and desktop processes

  15. #30
    zag
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    Why would anyone buy a windows tablet when the apple ipads are clearly more powerful, cheaper and have better resolutions.

    Thats the real question.

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