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Windows 8 Thread, Windows 8....urgh in Technical; ...
  1. #496


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    What you you think to this @CyberNerd?

    The latest numbers indicate that Windows 8 isn't boosting the weak PC notebook market, causing some manufacturers to blame Microsoft for poor sales. But Paul Thurrott, long time Microsoft enthusiast and founder of SuperSite for Windows, argues that Windows 8 isn't dragging down manufacturers — it's the other way around. "Many of [Microsoft's] 20 million Windows 7 licenses each month," Thurrott writes, "went to machines that are basically throwaway, plastic crap." Blaming netbooks particularly, he says that cheap notebook sales conditioned customers to "expect to pay next to nothing" for Windows machines, a strategy that backfired when Microsoft started optimizing Windows 8 for more expensive touch-based displays. His sentiment echoes that of NPD, which concluded in a private report that netbooks did "an incalculable amount of damage" to the PC market.

    We've written before about the potential of touch displays, as well as the problems they pose for current-gen hardware. Thurrott's suggestions for solving the touchscreen conundrum are largely cost-based: prices, he says, need to come down enough to occupy a place between cheap Android tablets and higher-priced iPads. For that to happen, though, manufacturers would have to shave several hundred dollars off the prices of touch-enabled machines, shifting focus from high-specced ultrabooks to cheaper notebooks and ARM devices. (Source)

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    I had thought that manufacturers had stopped making netbooks now and that their sales had plummeted. (except the chromebooks of course).
    I think the perennial problem for MS is that most of the PC's that are sold are "throwaway plastic crap" and it gives users a really poor view of Microsofts products. Moreover, as soon as a PC gets slow they need to get a new computer as most people don't know you can change an operating system (or even what an operating system is).It gives MS a really bad name and people look at alternatives like chromebooks and apple.
    Ultimately I'm sure there are loads of reasons Win8 has bombed.It'll probably pick up eventually; by SP1.

  3. #498

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    That's one theory.

    Another says that poor PC/laptop/netbook sales are not the fault of the hardware or Windows 8. Rather, the PC per se is not a necessity for the tasks that people do. Buyers are realising this and buying tablets.

    As an aside, my cousin runs her entire fashion business from her 3G ipad. Blog updates, photos, email, facebook, appointments, .... everything done on a tablet that fits in her bag. I'm not saying she's typical, but that seems to be the way the wind is blowing.
    Last edited by jinnantonnixx; 6th January 2013 at 10:11 PM.

  4. Thanks to jinnantonnixx from:

    zag (7th January 2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnixx View Post
    Another says that poor PC/laptop/netbook sales are not the fault of the hardware or Windows 8. Rather, the PC per se is not a necessity for the tasks that people do. Buyers are realising this and buying tablets.

    As an aside, my cousin runs her entire fashion business from her 3G ipad. Blog updates, photos, email, facebook, appointments, .... everything done on a tablet that fits in her bag. I'm not saying she's typical, but that seems to be the way the wind is blowing.
    This is the biggest problem MS is facing from a Windows hardware point of view IMO. 90% of buyers can carry out virtually all of the tasks (Web Surfing, Email, etc.) they need to on an iPad or equivalent tablet which is starting to make full Windows laptops seem like overkill. Price is also a key issue as consumers can now buy low to mid range Android tablets for £100-200 and high end 'premium' (at least as far as they're concerned) tablets for £300-400. You can barely buy a new Windows8 laptop for that and if you do it's likely to be one of the slow, cheap and nasty "throwaway plastic crap" models mentioned in the article that nobody really wants!

    It's not hard to see how in that environment MS and the other OEMs are struggling to sell Windows8 tablets and laptops for £500+ when the simple reality is that most people aren't willing to spend that kind of money any more. One of my friends asked me which laptop they should buy to replace their old WindowsXP one and it's reached the point where I'd actually recommend most people buy an iPad rather than a Windows device unless they have a specific need for it!

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    zag
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    I still think its idiotic intel are pushing ultrabooks that cost a thousand quid.

    We can buy acer timelinex's for 400 quid and put a 60gb SSD in them for basically the same result.

    And as for touchscreens on laptops, I mean come on??? pointless and a massive battery drain.

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    Nail on head, also why I still think MS were crazy charging such (comparatively) high prices for the Surface devices... real opportunity missed there imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    I think the perennial problem for MS is that most of the PC's that are sold are "throwaway plastic crap" and it gives users a really poor view of Microsofts products.
    Definitely! Microsoft's biggest problem are the OEMs. Lenovo's new IdeaPad Yoga running Windows 8 is a great example of the sort of crap customers still have to put up with when buying a Windows computer. This has a 128GB SSD, yet only ~43GB is actually usable due to the 7 partitions Lenovo created.




    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    I still think its idiotic Intel are pushing ultrabooks that cost a thousand quid.
    Not all Ultrabooks cost £1,000+. Samsung have some for £400-£500.

    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    And as for touchscreens on laptops, I mean come on??? pointless and a massive battery drain.
    If touchscreens were pointless, why is Google rumoured to be adding one to its next Chromebook? Also, why would adding a touchscreen cause massive battery drain? The battery in an iPad lasts upto 10 hours (both for the iPad 4 and iPad mini).

    Touchscreens are like 3D on TVs. It will be a standard feature eventually once cost, size and weight are reduced.

    Quote Originally Posted by gshaw View Post
    Nail on head, also why I still think MS were crazy charging such (comparatively) high prices for the Surface devices... real opportunity missed there imo
    Except that when you look at the total cost including apps and accessories, the price for the Surface RT isn't that high. It's quite easy to spend £500-£600+ on an iPad, especially once you add AppleCare, a Smart Cover, Bluetooth keyboard and an adapter or two.

    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnixx View Post
    my cousin runs her entire fashion business from her 3G ipad. Blog updates, photos, email, facebook, appointments, .... everything done on a tablet that fits in her bag. I'm not saying she's typical, but that seems to be the way the wind is blowing.
    I can see many people replacing PCs with tablets, but what a lot of people aren't aware of before they buy iPad's are the limitations. e.g.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmodo
    Let's assume I receive an email with a PDF attachment which I'd like to use in some other apps and maybe post to a social network later.

    On iOS, the user is forced to think around Apple's constraints. There is no easy way to just detach the file from the email and subsequently use it in what ever way I want. Instead, all iOS apps that want to expose some sort of sharing feature, do have to completely take care for it themselves. The result is a fairly inconsistent, unsatisfying user experience.

    On iOS, you might use the somewhat odd "Open in..." feature – in case the developer was so kind to implement it – to first move the file over to Dropbox, which gives you a virtual cloud-based file system. If you're lucky, the other app, from which you want to use the file next, offers Dropbox integration, too, so you can re-download it and start from there. All because Apple denies the necessity of basic cross-app local storage. (Source)
    Some people won't mind this, while others will get incredibly frustrated.

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    If touchscreens were pointless, why is Google rumoured to be adding one to its next Chromebook? Also, why would adding a touchscreen cause massive battery drain? The battery in an iPad lasts upto 10 hours (both for the iPad 4 and iPad mini).

    Touchscreens are like 3D on TVs. It will be a standard feature eventually once cost, size and weight are reduced.
    because people have been told they want them (less so with touch it has its uses) but 3dtv/films how does it make anything better the only reason its been done is so you cant take a camcorder into the cinema and they can charge more to see films. Granted as a glasses wearer 3d is a right royal pita but the only time ive seen owt in the cinema (toy story 3) it gave me the worst headache ive ever had for 8 hours and i wouldnt call it 3d either it was more like parallax layers moving.

    As to google adding touch to chromebooks they have to or they will be seen as backwards.

    I cant be the only person who thinks touch isnt the way forwards im seriously debating a non smartphone next time with actual buttons as its just easier and as 3g is ropey at best im not sure id miss it

  10. #504
    zag
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    Touch screens reduce the battery life of laptops by around 2hrs from the results on Engadget that I have seen. Its quite an easy test to do as a lot of manufactures are simply refreshing their current laptops with touchscreens for the CES show going on right now.

    I really dont get the reason for it, who wants sticky finger marks on their screens and worse battery life. What does a touchscreen bring to laptop? Why not just get a tablet?

  11. #505
    zag
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    I just bought a load of new Acer TimelineX's for £323 each, add a 60gb SSD and we have a nice cheap "ultrabook" for our staff

    Windows 7 all the way

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    What does a touchscreen bring to laptop? Why not just get a tablet?
    a bluetooth KB for a tablet does me fine

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    I just bought a load of new Acer TimelineX's for £323 each, add a 60gb SSD and we have a nice cheap "ultrabook" for our staff

    Windows 7 all the way
    are they any better than acers of old as we stopped selling them to schools as the screens flexed and they generally had the build quality of a sandwich

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    Touch screens reduce the battery life of laptops by around 2hrs from the results on Engadget that I have seen.
    It depends on the laptop and the specs. Two hours is at the extreme end. Lenovo's X1 Carbon Touch only loses around 7 minutes of battery life compared to the non-touchscreen version. Asus' UX31A loses a bit more (50 minutes) because of the faster processor and larger SSD in the touchscreen model. Which laptops were you looking at?



    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    who wants sticky finger marks on their screens and worse battery life.
    In a school you get finger marks on screens regardless of whether they are touchscreen or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    What does a touchscreen bring to laptop?
    It's just an additional input method - you already have mice, keyboards, multi-touch trackpads and trackpoints. What's wrong with one more? Some people like touching the screen.

    Some Asus laptops will soon come bundled with the Leap Motion adapter and OS X 10.9 will probably have Siri integrated as well.
    Last edited by Arthur; 7th January 2013 at 02:27 PM.

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    Personally I think the hardware side of Windows 8 thus far has been really poor. Nothing of good enough quality \ price point to become a "must have" over an iPad or Android tablet. Microsoft had a chance to do something big with the Surface but seem to have squandered the opportunity. Granted some may say this is to keep the OEMs on-side but they've not exactly busted a gut to make that allowance worthwhile (imo)

    I still think preventing businesses using Windows RT is a big fail, spoke to more people today and they think exactly the same I do... what they want is an affordable, secure device to edit Office files on the go that links up seamlessly with their internal network and the cloud. They want that device to cost no more than the equivalent iPad, to be thin \ light with decent battery life. Surface RT ticks the boxes if it could be properly managed... instead it's looking like a white elephant that doesn't suit home or business users.

    Looking for a laptop for work use at the moment, considered the touchscreen convertibles but the (OTT) price increase over similarly specced standard laptops doesn't make them a viable option and renders the touchscreen an expensive gimmick rather than core feature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gshaw View Post
    I still think preventing businesses using Windows RT is a big fail, spoke to more people today and they think exactly the same I do... what they want is an affordable, secure device to edit Office files on the go that links up seamlessly with their internal network and the cloud. They want that device to cost no more than the equivalent iPad, to be thin \ light with decent battery life.
    Android/ChromeBooks with Google Apps already has filled that niche.

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