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Windows 8 Thread, Windows 8....urgh in Technical; Originally Posted by Tallwood_6 Not sure how they would be applied seeing as RT isn't supposed to have any domain ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallwood_6 View Post
    Not sure how they would be applied seeing as RT isn't supposed to have any domain / management tool support.
    ah i didn't know that - TBH if M$ don't do any type of management they are just shooting themselves in the foot. they are years behind in the tablet market in terms of os and the only real thing needed now is a decent way to manage devices. Its slowly starting to trickle through but putting a good footing out there is the way to go IMHO.

    Perhaps there is a way to point it to a management server which would be a DC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallwood_6 View Post
    Not sure how they would be applied seeing as RT isn't supposed to have any domain / management tool support.
    You are correct that Windows RT tablets can't join an AD domain, but they can definitely be managed (although not in the same way we are used to with current and previous versions of Windows).

    For WOA, we have integrated a new management client that can communicate with a management infrastructure in the cloud to deliver LOB apps to users. You’ll hear more about this management infrastructure at a later date from our friends on the System Center blog, so this post will focus on the benefits and capabilities of the WOA management client itself.

    There are actually two parts to the WOA management client: the built-in system component, which we’ll call the agent; and a Metro-style app, which we’ll call the self-service portal, or SSP, that the consumer uses to browse for and install LOB apps made available to them. Both parts of the WOA management client are well behaved Windows 8 apps in terms of user experience, power management/battery life, network awareness (for metered networks), and overall functionality.

    The agent does most of the heavy lifting on the client. It configures the client to communicate with the organization’s management infrastructure; periodically synchronizes with the management infrastructure to check for any updated LOB apps and apply the latest settings policies configured by IT for the device; and handles the actual download and installation of any LOB apps that the user wants to install. Finally, if the user or the administrator chooses to remove the device from the management infrastructure, it clears the configuration of the agent itself and disables any LOB apps the user installed from the SSP. (Source)
    In a post published today on the Windows 8 engineering team's blog, Management Systems Program Manager Lead Jeffrey Sullivan described the new capability for Windows RT, which uses a connection to System Center 2012's cloud-based management infrastructure to deliver the applications to the client devices. The agent as Sullivan wrote "does most of the heavy lifting" for client administration, allowing administrators to set which users within the organization are allowed to load applications onto Windows RT devices based on their Active Directory credentials.

    A new desktop Control Panel applet allows users to connect to the management infrastructure and download the client, authenticating them using their corporate e-mail address and password over a secure connection to the management service. Once connected, the agent configures the device's connection to the corporate network, periodically polls the cloud for updated applications and device setting policies pushed out by administrators, and downloads and installs line-of-business applications that users choose to install. It also gives administrators remote self-destruct on applications: "If the user or the administrator chooses to remove the device from the management infrastructure, it clears the configuration of the agent itself and disables any LOB apps the user installed from the [self-service portal]," Sullivan wrote. (Source)

  3. #273


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    ^^ I can see the death/strategic withdrawal of Active Directory here.
    With so much BYOD and cloud nowadays MS now need to move to management tools that are outside of a windows domain. Their lack of imagination wrt mobile and tablet devices prompted this as Apple and Google started to take over their traditional market space.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    ^^ I can see the death/strategic withdrawal of Active Directory here.
    With so much BYOD and cloud nowadays MS now need to move to management tools that are outside of a windows domain. Their lack of imagination wrt mobile and tablet devices prompted this as Apple and Google started to take over their traditional market space.
    Don't be so hasty. Apple's 'market share' is what people would call 'tiny' when it comes to number of devices in use (talking about pcs, tablets etc...).

    Businesses simply do not want to outsource every aspect of their network into 'the cloud' - it makes no sense to do so for many things.

    Saying that Apple and Google have started to take over MS's market space is kinda overselling it a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    TBH if MS don't do any type of management they are just shooting themselves in the foot.
    Windows RT (ARM) tablets are designed for consumers and to compete with the iPad, whereas Windows 8 (x86) slates are more for businesses and 'power users'. The latter can be integrated with AD, have multiple user accounts and managed with GPOs, SCCM etc. because they are just regular PCs.

    Imagine buying an expensive Android tablet out of your own money, taking it into work and then having it completely locked down and monitored by the IT department (both at work and at home). I don't think many people would be happy with this, so you can see why Microsoft have designed Windows RT in the way they have done.

    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    Perhaps there is a way to point it to a management server which would be a DC?
    See post #272.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    With so much BYOD and cloud nowadays MS now need to move to management tools that are outside of a Windows domain.
    Windows Intune?

  6. #276


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    which was introduced in July 2011


    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Don't be so hasty. Apple's 'market share' is what people would call 'tiny' when it comes to number of devices in use (talking about pcs, tablets etc...).

    Businesses simply do not want to outsource every aspect of their network into 'the cloud' - it makes no sense to do so for many things.

    Saying that Apple and Google have started to take over MS's market space is kinda overselling it a bit.

    The marketspace of google/apple is massive in the telephone market compared MS who make their money primarily with MS Office. People want apps at home and there are plenty offering compelling reasons not to use the traditional windows setup. Write documents on a desktop by all means, view them with quickoffice, squeezes MSOffice a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Imagine buying an expensive Android tablet out of your own money, taking it into work and then having it completely locked down and monitored by the IT department (both at work and at home). I don't think many people would be happy with this, so you can see why Microsoft have designed Windows RT in the way they have done.
    Personally with Ipads I don't see the need to lock them down - all apps which can be installed would be via the Appstore which apple controls what goes into - meaning the likelyhood of dodgy apps in minimal. Android is slightly different in that respect.

    With regards to the RT version VS windows 8 - I don't see the point, not all companies are going to what to shell out for full device tablets when what they want can be achieved on the ARM device.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    You are correct that Windows RT tablets can't join an AD domain, but they can definitely be managed (although not in the same way we are used to with current and previous versions of Windows).
    In a post published today on the Windows 8 engineering team's blog, Management Systems Program Manager Lead Jeffrey Sullivan described the new capability for Windows RT, which uses a connection to System Center 2012's cloud-based management infrastructure to deliver the applications to the client devices. The agent as Sullivan wrote "does most of the heavy lifting" for client administration, allowing administrators to set which users within the organization are allowed to load applications onto Windows RT devices based on their Active Directory credentials.

    A new desktop Control Panel applet allows users to connect to the management infrastructure and download the client, authenticating them using their corporate e-mail address and password over a secure connection to the management service. Once connected, the agent configures the device's connection to the corporate network, periodically polls the cloud for updated applications and device setting policies pushed out by administrators, and downloads and installs line-of-business applications that users choose to install. It also gives administrators remote self-destruct on applications: "If the user or the administrator chooses to remove the device from the management infrastructure, it clears the configuration of the agent itself and disables any LOB apps the user installed from the [self-service portal]," Sullivan wrote
    sounds more mdm than gpo. advantage being that presumably most schools would either already have systems centre or can get it cheaper than other mdm products. I can't imagine M$ pursuing a typical commercial mdm pricing strategy for this.

    As to the whole question of why microsoft are going down this route, and the apple/google minimal market share argument, a recent survey suggested this

    Schools ‘appy’ to take up tablet technology - News - Education Executive

    if your talking about going from 6% of tablet computers to 22% (as an overall percentage of pupil facing devices in schools) within three years, and we're not talking that being driven by the traditional stylus type tablet....that kind of growth is why microsoft have to push this tablet friendly strategy. And they've kind of got to put both feet in the camp of managing the exclusively tablet RT OS the way Apple have done so successfully. And if a large number of these devices are to be pupil provided/owned devices, then you've got to have a model that doesn't see IT taking ownership of the devices, more about IT being there to provision options and facilitate integration, hence the mention of users 'choosing' which LOB apps to install. Whereas the PC model is software being pushed down via GPO, the new model is very much the user pulling down what they need.
    Last edited by alttab; 8th June 2012 at 01:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    The marketspace of google/apple is massive in the telephone market compared MS who make their money primarily with MS Office. People want apps at home and there are plenty offering compelling reasons not to use the traditional windows setup. Write documents on a desktop by all means, view them with quickoffice, squeezes MSOffice a bit.
    Home users are not their primary market - business is. Microsoft made around $5bn profit in the last quarter of 2009, for example and about $2bn from Office.

    Everything else in their business is tiny in comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    Personally with Ipads I don't see the need to lock them down - all apps which can be installed would be via the Appstore which apple controls what goes into - meaning the likelyhood of dodgy apps in minimal. Android is slightly different in that respect.
    Is not just the threat, its all the installing of pointless 'apps' that not only fill the devices, but cause distractions in classes or to use as a carrot on a stick by weak teachers when the kids have done real work. They should have what they need for educational needs, not what they want.


    MS have missed out big time on WindowsRT on domains. Many laptops primarily used as word processors and internet research device could have been replaced with low power devices that go all day without having to be recharged. Maybe Windows8sp1 or Windows9 will include this so they can say they've listened.

    If the integration of management of RT is with SCCM2012 like the exchange connector it'll probably be usable, hopefully they'll be useful settings we can modify, just basic lockdown so they are not open to be ruined by kids.
    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 8th June 2012 at 08:58 AM.

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    Just found a new feature in IE10 called "Flip Ahead"

    It's not on by default as it requires browser history to be sent to MS as they don't have all sites working with it yet.

    What it does is let you use IE's Forward and Back buttons to move between pages on a site instead of having to fiddle with the little links for each page.

    Tested with this topic and it appears to work..

    In Metro its under Settings -> Internet Options -> Flip Ahead
    In Desktop its under Internet Options -> Advanced -> Browsing -> Enable flip ahead

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Home users are not their primary market - business is. Microsoft made around $5bn profit in the last quarter of 2009, for example and about $2bn from Office.

    Everything else in their business is tiny in comparison.
    the thing is though, can they continue to rely on the traditional PC-upgrade cycle to provide those sorts of numbers from business sales as has been the case in the past. Even though business large and small won't abandon Windows and x86 apps anytime soon...and i'm sure the next version of office will do good numbers, it has to be that the cloud, BYOD and tablets are a disruptive element if your traditional model is in the business of making money from x86 hardware and software upgrades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alttab View Post
    the thing is though, can they continue to rely on the traditional PC-upgrade cycle to provide those sorts of numbers from business sales as has been the case in the past. Even though business large and small won't abandon Windows and x86 apps anytime soon...and i'm sure the next version of office will do good numbers, it has to be that the cloud, BYOD and tablets are a disruptive element if your traditional model is in the business of making money from x86 hardware and software upgrades.
    Indeed, they will get extra from the new markets - but I simply cannot see those new markets replacing existing ones, but instead they will add to them. Office buildings will still be full of desktop and laptop users - that's how work is done. You're not going to find call centres with tablets etc...

    But you will see roving sales people having tablets to show things off, whilst also having a laptop which they can get on and write their reports etc...

    BYOD is, as far as I can see, a non-starter. People put it as some panacea to the problem of costs but all I've seen so far is companies who have tried it, and found that due to the extra infrastructure and security required to support them, and the support required to handle so many different platforms, it ends up costing more. The Reg has had a list of them saying the same thing.

    Cloud is one are which is more disruptive - but Microsoft are doing well in that market. They have their own cloud system, they have a cloud version of Office and their email etc..., they also are able to provide 'private' clouds to those who want them - something that their competitors can't or won't do. So, Microsoft aren't going to be losing out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Don't be so hasty. Apple's 'market share' is what people would call 'tiny' when it comes to number of devices in use (talking about pcs, tablets etc...).

    Businesses simply do not want to outsource every aspect of their network into 'the cloud' - it makes no sense to do so for many things.

    Saying that Apple and Google have started to take over MS's market space is kinda overselling it a bit.
    I am not sure it is overselling it a bit. Things are changing tablets and smartphones both individually outsell desktops and most tablets are apple. We are already at a stage where more new devices are Apple over Intel/Microsoft and it looks like not only will the trend continues but it is predicted to increase towards Apple favour. EDITED out last bit as its wrong

    EDIT2: Looking at the numbers it looks like Intel/Microsoft devices increased in sales by around 3.7% for 2011 while Apple devices increased by around 200% to 300% in the same timeframe. Add in google devices to that and Apple +Google are a major part of the market now.
    Last edited by Pottsey; 11th June 2012 at 12:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pottsey View Post
    I am not sure it is overselling it a bit. Things are changing tablets and smartphones both individually outsell desktops and most tablets are apple. We are already at a stage where more new devices are Apple over Intel/Microsoft and it looks like not only will the trend continues but it is predicted to increase towards Apple favour. EDITED out last bit as its wrong

    EDIT2: Looking at the numbers it looks like Intel/Microsoft devices increased in sales by around 3.7% for 2011 while Apple devices increased by around 200% to 300% in the same timeframe.
    You missed my point - just because another market has appeared does not mean that it is stealing MS's market. As you just said, they have seen growth themselves. When a market is tiny, a 300% increase is still small. When a market is huge, a 3.7% increase is also large.

    Have Apple or Google taken over the OS market for producitivity, or productivity suites, or servers? No on all accounts. Sure, Google Apps has nibbled a few bits here and there but you find me a big business which doesn't use Office on Windows...

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