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Windows 8 Thread, Windows 8.1 Update 2 to be released in September? in Technical; Just a rumour at this stage, but 'Update 2' is the update that adds the Start Menu back to Windows ...
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    Windows 8.1 Update 2 to be released in September?

    Just a rumour at this stage, but 'Update 2' is the update that adds the Start Menu back to Windows 8.1.

    Source: WinBeta

    According to new details from Wzor, Microsoft will roll out another update to Windows 8.1 (Update 2) sometime in September of this year, during the Autumn season. Microsoft may refer to this update as Windows 8.1 Update 2 or may even call it Windows 8.2, as there appears to be some sort of heated internal discussion on what to call it. Microsoft is expected to roll out the Start Menu, showcased during Build 2014, in this update.

    [...]

    Again, we must stress that this is a huge rumor. Microsoft hasn't offered any details on the upcoming Windows 8.1 Update 2, nor has there been any information on Windows 9 or Windows 10. Leaked information is scarce and things are a lot tighter ever since the leaker of Windows 8 was arrested.

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    robjduk's Avatar
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    If true then Microsoft are sadly bowing down to the idiots from the stone age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robjduk View Post
    If true then Microsoft are sadly bowing down to the idiots from the stone age.
    Or 'PC Users' as normal people call them.

  4. 5 Thanks to Simcfc73:

    gwendes (25th April 2014), john (25th April 2014), nephilim (25th April 2014), Norphy (25th April 2014), sparkeh (24th April 2014)

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    Quote Originally Posted by robjduk View Post
    If true then Microsoft are sadly bowing down to the idiots from the stone age.
    I thought bowing down to the idiots from the stone age was how the current windows 8 UI got designed. Office 2013 and Outlook seem extra bad when combined with win 8. I find it all a massive step backwards.
    Last edited by Pottsey; 25th April 2014 at 08:49 AM.

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    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    I really don't get all the fuss about the W8 Start Menu (or lack of). Why aren't people making more of a thing about Microsoft's attempts to force everything through the store? That's far more worthy of ire, IMHO. Or are people so used to doing things that way now that it doesn't worry them?

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    abillybob's Avatar
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    The Start Menu, is something I'd enjoy being back as a Desktop user. I can get around Windows 8.1 fine as it is now but it would just be a nice little addition. I'm a bit confused by the concept that all Windows users live in the stone age with reference to @Simcfc73, Microsoft seem to be the only company that's moving forward in my opinion with new futuristic layouts and making their OS more pretty to look at, not to mention listening to Users feedback on how the OS is run which is great at least they acknowledge they have made a booboo and now need to rectify the problem and make it more user friendly.

    I am presuming you either use a Mac based computer or a Linux Distribution as you are pointing fingers at PC so quickly. I like Mac and though it's a nice OS they haven't changed that much for a while now in terms of the layout of their OS or iOS. The same goes for a lot of Linux Distro's please have a look at Ubuntu that has looked like it has for god knows how many years.... Yesy, yes they have changed small odd things here and there but they have not changed in terms of the layout of their OS. It seems they are the ones that are so called behind. I'd rather back a company that will take risks and move forward by listening to customer feedback than a company who decides to keep everything Hush, Hush and won't let user Beta test just to find out there's problems wrong with Software which they never admit as they're too proud for some reason. I think you have made a silly remark and statement we are not 12 anymore and this is not a playground so keep things like that to yourself otherwise you could find a lot of people on here will 'disagree' in a not so much polite way as majority on here use Windows.

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    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    They broke something and now they're fixing, albeit incredibly late on.

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    This is one of the reasons I've cancelled my planned roll out of Windows 8.1 this year. They're obviously still working on it and seems very much a 'work in progress' - even though underneath it's a solid OS. I've been pulling my hair out with 8.1 over the last few months; start screen layout issues, deployment issues, etc that I've had enough. Windows 7 for another year, hopefully in the next six months of so we'll have a OS that won't change for a bit and I can build on that. For now, nope. Just get it sorted!

    Pete

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    EduTech's Avatar
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    I really do not see what the issue is with how things are now, and the updates that have been made to 8.1 especially from a Modern Apps side and I use quite a few Modern Apps now do make it easier to get out of them and PIN them to the task bar etc.

    If that image is anything to go by then I hate that start menu! :-) There is nothing wrong with how it is now! I just use the power of search if i don't already have it on my Task Bar..

    James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    The Start Menu, is something I'd enjoy being back as a Desktop user. I can get around Windows 8.1 fine as it is now but it would just be a nice little addition. I'm a bit confused by the concept that all Windows users live in the stone age with reference to @Simcfc73, Microsoft seem to be the only company that's moving forward in my opinion with new futuristic layouts and making their OS more pretty to look at, not to mention listening to Users feedback on how the OS is run which is great at least they acknowledge they have made a booboo and now need to rectify the problem and make it more user friendly.

    I am presuming you either use a Mac based computer or a Linux Distribution as you are pointing fingers at PC so quickly. I like Mac and though it's a nice OS they haven't changed that much for a while now in terms of the layout of their OS or iOS. The same goes for a lot of Linux Distro's please have a look at Ubuntu that has looked like it has for god knows how many years.... Yesy, yes they have changed small odd things here and there but they have not changed in terms of the layout of their OS. It seems they are the ones that are so called behind. I'd rather back a company that will take risks and move forward by listening to customer feedback than a company who decides to keep everything Hush, Hush and won't let user Beta test just to find out there's problems wrong with Software which they never admit as they're too proud for some reason. I think you have made a silly remark and statement we are not 12 anymore and this is not a playground so keep things like that to yourself otherwise you could find a lot of people on here will 'disagree' in a not so much polite way as majority on here use Windows.
    Apart from the Start screen, there haven't been any huge UI changes in Windows since Windows 95 came along. Yes, there have been refinements and cosmetic changes but a window on a Windows computer still has a menu bar, it still has minimize/maximize/close buttons in the top right corner, you can still double click in the top left to close a window, you still have a start button and you still have a task bar and system notification area on the bottom of the screen. Obviously there have been huge changes behind the scenes but the average person doesn't see that. You could quite easily transport somebody from 1998, stick them in front of a Windows 7/8 PC and tell them to get on with it. And in terms of cosmetics, Windows 8 has a lot in common with Windows 3 in a way, it's gone back to flat buttons, scrollbars and window bars.

    Compare that to Apple, during that time there was a HUGE transition going from OS 9 to OS X, entirely new OS and interface. Admittedly there have only been relatively small refinements since then. With Linux there have been new versions of Gnome and KDE, the most popular UIs available for it. The difference between Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 is pretty significant, same with the new version of KDE. And to take your example of Ubuntu, the colour scheme has remained consistent but they've change from Gnome 2 to Unity which again is a pretty big change and one which a lot of their users are/were unhappy about.

    Like @rickjames says, if it ain't broke don't fix it. There is/was nothing intrinsically wrong with the UI on either Windows or OS X. By all means make refinements but don't make changes in the name of progress which actually take away functionality and make the entire experience a whole lot worse, much like Microsoft did with the Start Screen on Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by EduTech View Post
    I really do not see what the issue is with how things are now, and the updates that have been made to 8.1 especially from a Modern Apps side and I use quite a few Modern Apps now do make it easier to get out of them and PIN them to the task bar etc.

    If that image is anything to go by then I hate that start menu! :-) There is nothing wrong with how it is now! I just use the power of search if i don't already have it on my Task Bar..

    James.
    The power of search assumes that you know the name of the application that you're looking for. If you're coming to school for the first time and looking for a package to put a funny moustache onto a picture of David Cameron, you're not going to know if the school is going to have Paint Shop Pro, PhotoShop, Corel Draw, PAINT .NET or if they'll be forced to use MSPaint. The earlier versions of the Start Menu aren't ideal but they can at least put programs into a hierarchy. The Start Screen on Windows 8 just dumps everything into a huge flat screen which is horrible to look for stuff on.
    Last edited by Norphy; 25th April 2014 at 12:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norphy View Post
    Apart from the Start screen, there haven't been any huge UI changes in Windows since Windows 95 came along. Yes, there have been refinements and cosmetic changes but a window on a Windows computer still has a menu bar, it still has minimize/maximize/close buttons in the top right corner, you can still double click in the top left to close a window, you still have a start button and you still have a task bar and system notification area on the bottom of the screen. Obviously there have been huge changes behind the scenes but the average person doesn't see that. You could quite easily transport somebody from 1998, stick them in front of a Windows 7/8 PC and tell them to get on with it. And in terms of cosmetics, Windows 8 has a lot in common with Windows 3 in a way, it's gone back to flat buttons, scrollbars and window bars.

    Compare that to Apple, during that there was a HUGE transition going from OS 9 to OS X, entirely new OS and interface. Admittedly there have only been relatively small refinements since then. With Linux there have been new versions of Gnome and KDE, the most popular UIs available for it. The difference between Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 is pretty significant, same with the new version of KDE. And to take your example of Ubuntu, the colour scheme has remained consistent but they've change from Gnome 2 to Unity which again is a pretty big change and one which a lot of their users are/were unhappy about.

    Like @rickjames says, if it ain't broke don't fix it. There is/was nothing intrinsically wrong with the UI on either Windows or OS X. By all means make refinements but don't make changes in the name of progress which actually take away functionality and make the entire experience a whole lot worse, much like Microsoft did with the Start Screen on Windows 8
    I hope you're trolling, are you seriously stating that someone who is on a Windows 95 computer could jump off that and move straight to a Windows 8 Machine and use it like nothing has changed? How can you say Windows 8 is like all the rest, the Metro Interface for a start is completely brand new, the way you navigate to start buttons, opening metro apps and putting different apps side by side on the same screen, new shortcuts that have been implemented. I could go on.... my point being is look at the last 5 releases of OSX then take a look at the last 5 releases of Windows, who has changed more? You still haven't rectified why you deem PC Users as Idiots from the Stone Age and why people that use other platforms aren't, when in my opinion Windows is the OS that has changed most drastically.

    OS9 and OSX I could argue are exactly the same as each other, the menu bars are still located at the top of the screen, you still have what looks to be a dock, all they have done from OS 9 to OSX is refine the graphics and make the OS more animated nothing else has changed. Except for how it works in the background though your agreeing that PC Users are still living in the stone age.

    Just to remind you of the two Apple OS, I suppose they moved the dock into the center

    Mac_OS_9_screenshot_2.png OS_X_Mavericks_Desktop.png

    and Windows 95 compared to 8's metro interface and desktop

    Windows_95_Desktop_screenshot.png live20tiles-11331054.png win8_review_desktop-no-aero_small.jpg

    Look at those and tell me that a Mac's OS has changed more....
    Last edited by abillybob; 25th April 2014 at 01:06 PM.

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    gshaw's Avatar
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    I can live without the Start Menu but giving users the choice to use the UI they prefer can only be a good thing imo - that said you'll always have the two camps of "I want freedom of choice" vs "it's easier for users if there's no choice aka Apple knows best"

    Microsoft trying to do an Apple was never a good idea imo and seems like sense is prevailing there since the change of leadership.

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    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norphy View Post
    don't make changes in the name of progress which actually take away functionality and make the entire experience a whole lot worse, much like Microsoft did with the Start Screen on Windows 8
    I'd argue different rather than worse. Surely, as (presumably) power users, very few of us pressed start and scrolled down the list rather than start typing? So no change. Non-power users usually have desktops that are a lot harder to find anything on than the Start Screen to launch programs, so a probable improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norphy View Post
    The earlier versions of the Start Menu aren't ideal but they can at least put programs into a hierarchy. The Start Screen on Windows 8 just dumps everything into a huge flat screen which is horrible to look for stuff on.
    I have the Start Screen on my (mainly) W8 school with a block of Office, then everything else alphabetically. (Admittedly, I've not had to make changes yet and an "arrange tiles alphabetically" option would have been nice!) We considered grouping by "subject", but decided it might lead to confusion. I don't see why this is worse than the old way. If anything, the icons are larger and easier to see.

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    Norphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    I hope you're trolling, are you seriously stating that someone who is on a Windows 95 computer could jump off that and move straight to a Windows 8 Machine and use it like nothing has changed? How can you say Windows 8 is like all the rest, the Metro Interface for a start is completely brand new,
    Did you not see the bit where I said "Apart from the start screen"? The desktop on a Windows PC has not changed significantly since Windows 95. I'm sorry, it hasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    the way you navigate to start buttons, opening metro apps and putting different apps side by side on the same screen, new shortcuts that have been implemented. I could go on....
    Refinements, not major UX changes. Discounting the modern UI for a minute, things are largely in the same place they've been in years.

    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    my point being is look at the last 5 releases of OSX then take a look at the last 5 releases of Windows, who has changed more? You still haven't rectified why you deem PC Users as Idiots from the Stone Age and why people that use other platforms aren't, when in my opinion Windows is the OS that has changed most drastically.
    Where did I say that? I said that the Start Screen was a retrograde step from the Start Menu on Windows boxes. I stand by that for desktop usage. It makes sense on a tablet, yes but on a desktop it's awful. I didn't deem anyone to be an idiot from the stone age, stop putting words in people's mouths.

    <edit> in fact it was Robjduk who called people who don't like the Start Screen idiots from the Stone Age. Simcfc73 then said that normal PC users prefer the start menu over the start screen which I then agreed with.</edit>

    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    OS9 and OSX I could argue are exactly the same as each other, the menu bars are still located at the top of the screen, you still have what looks to be a dock, all they have done from OS 9 to OSX is refine the graphics and make the OS more animated nothing else has changed. Except for how it works in the background though your agreeing that PC Users are still living in the stone age.
    Again, I said that newer versions of OS X were refinements. I didn't dispute that for a second. Going from OS 9 to OS X was a huge jump however.

    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    Just to remind you of the two Apple OS, I suppose they moved the dock into the center
    Have you ever used OS 9? I'm guessing not. I have. It is a very different beast to OS X despite the similarities in the screenshot there.


    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    and Windows 95 compared to 8's metro interface and desktop
    Again, did you not see where I said "Apart from the start screen"? Oh look, the desktops are very similar.



    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    Look at those and tell me that a Mac's OS has changed more....
    Has the user interface between OS 9 and OS X changed more than the UI between Windows 95/NT 4 and Windows 8? Yes. I think that a Mac user from 1995 would have much more difficulty adapting to OS X than a Windows user from the same time would have adapting to Windows 7 or Windows 8. Discounting the start screen of course
    Last edited by Norphy; 25th April 2014 at 01:46 PM.

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    Norphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarchand View Post
    I'd argue different rather than worse. Surely, as (presumably) power users, very few of us pressed start and scrolled down the list rather than start typing? So no change. Non-power users usually have desktops that are a lot harder to find anything on than the Start Screen to launch programs, so a probable improvement.



    I have the Start Screen on my (mainly) W8 school with a block of Office, then everything else alphabetically. (Admittedly, I've not had to make changes yet and an "arrange tiles alphabetically" option would have been nice!) We considered grouping by "subject", but decided it might lead to confusion. I don't see why this is worse than the old way. If anything, the icons are larger and easier to see.
    The Start Screen does have reduced functionality compared to the Start Menu though. The Start Screen doesn't have jump lists which, as a power user, I use quite heavily. Yes, shortcuts in the taskbar still have them but I don't especially want a ton of pinned shortcuts taking up space there all the time. At least on the Start Menu they're not visible when I don't need them to be.

  17. Thanks to Norphy from:

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