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Windows 8 Thread, Windows Blue - Confirmed as 8.1 and Free! in Technical; Originally Posted by Arthur Here it is. The thing everyone has been waiting for! Nope ! Well, "more fool on ...
  1. #31

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Here it is. The thing everyone has been waiting for!




    Nope!
    Well, "more fool on you" to anyone daft enough to run Windows on a Mac


    Anyway, minus the wallpaper my windows 8.0 already looks exactly like that and boots to desktop Thanks, start8!
    Last edited by synaesthesia; 29th May 2013 at 08:01 PM.

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    I don't think Microsoft have quite got it right - clicking the Start button will open the Start Screen?

    Why don't they just restore the Start Menu properly (Windows 7's), but have a static shortcut for the Start Screen on the Start Menu, if users wish to choose it. This would offer the best of both worlds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    clicking the Start button will open the Start Screen?
    A good compromise don't you think, although it might confuse a small number of people because the button won't be visible when they venture in Metro-land (unless you move your mouse into the corner). Still, you can't please everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Why don't they just restore the Start Menu properly (Windows 7's)
    Because it isn't suitable for high PPI screens (see links below) and lacks the ability to display dynamic information as live tiles can (among many other things).




    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    This would offer the best of both worlds.
    We've been stuck with the same Start Menu interface for 18 years! It's time to move on from that. Think about how long Microsoft has to support each version of Windows for (10 years!) and then look at how things change in a similar time-frame.


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    Michael's Avatar
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    I just feel as we're in a transition period, it's best to have both options. You then please customers who want to use Metro fully, customers who want the Start Menu/Desktop experience and users who want both. It's a no brainer to me.

    The fact developers have gone to the effort to restore the Start Menu, as with Classic Shell, it's clearly what users want. Win 8 is better optimised than Win 7. I can't fault it here, it's just the interface that needs sorting as well as the GPO options.

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    Jamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    A good compromise don't you think, although it might confuse a small number of people because the button won't be visible when they venture in Metro-land (unless you move your mouse into the corner). Still, you can't please everyone.


    Because it isn't suitable for high PPI screens (see links below) and lacks the ability to display dynamic information as live tiles can (among many other things).





    We've been stuck with the same Start Menu interface for 18 years! It's time to move on from that. Think about how long Microsoft has to support each version of Windows for (10 years!) and then look at how things change in a similar time-frame.
    High PPI screens being the reason? Isn't that what MS came out with the DPI settings for? The solution to having buttons which are too small is to..... make them bigger. Shocker.

    Using it on server 2012, trying to RDP onto a box with no start menu is such a pain, hovering across the few pixels in the corner just seems like a bug to be honest, such poor user experience, I really cannot express how bad I think the GUI is! It is unfortunate as the dedupe + native NIC teaming is brilliant!!

    Also why move on from something that works? Innovation for the sake of innovation is dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamo View Post
    High PPI screens being the reason? Isn't that what MS came out with the DPI settings for? The solution to having buttons which are too small is to..... make them bigger. Shocker.
    No. High PPI screens aren't the sole reason. Many desktop programs look fuzzy when scaled up, whereas Metro apps are fine. Chrome being a good example of the former and that clearly isn't ideal, is it? Google will no doubt update their browser in due course (like they did for OS X), but many Windows programs will never be updated.



    ^ Click to make bigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamo View Post
    Using it on Server 2012, trying to RDP onto a box with no start menu is such a pain, hovering across the few pixels in the corner just seems like a bug to be honest, such poor user experience
    Make the RDP connection full screen and then you can use the Windows key to open the Start Screen. Alternatively press Alt + Home, click the triangle on the connection bar (as shown below) or use RSAT. There are lots of options.



    The Start button is also going to be added back to Windows Server 2012 R2 so you won't be without it for long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamo View Post
    Innovation for the sake of innovation is dumb.
    Innovate or die as the saying goes. Apple, Google and Canonical aren't standing still or catering to the whims of people who refuse to learn anything new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    The fact developers have gone to the effort to restore the Start Menu, as with Classic Shell, it's clearly what users want.
    Classic Shell was originally written for Windows 7 which obviously didn't have a Start Screen.

    Developers are creating Start Menu's for Windows 8 because it's an extremely easy way to make money. If I could code, I would make one too, sell it for £1 and then retire after I became a millionaire.

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    Jamo's Avatar
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    Innovate or die?

    Microsoft have gone down then route of innovate and die.

    Full screen RDP is great, but what if I want to run in a window for any reason....

    There is just so much poor thought in this product I can't understand why anyone is defending it

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    We've been stuck with the same Start Menu interface for 18 years! It's time to move on from that. Think about how long Microsoft has to support each version of Windows for (10 years!) and then look at how things change in a similar time-frame.
    There's nothing wrong with moving on from the start menu. I'm comfortable with it being time for a change. I just think the change should be an improvement on what it's replacing, and so far the start screen doesn't meet that criteria, at least for "traditional" computer use scenarios.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Classic Shell was originally written for Windows 7 which obviously didn't have a Start Screen.

    Developers are creating Start Menu's for Windows 8 because it's an extremely easy way to make money. If I could code, I would make one too, sell it for £1 and then retire after I became a millionaire.
    But if you take money out the equation, they developed it because users want it - and they offer users to make a donation. If Metro does turn out to be great, it will sell itself and people will use it as they see the advantages. It just seems ridiculous Microsoft doesn't want customers to use Win 8 unless they're using Metro! Why do they care so much? Making it the default is fair enough, but not allowing users to customise the interface to their needs is backwards thinking. This is why there's a lot downgrading or people downloading apps like Classic Shell so it works for them.

    Microsoft got it right with XP - the new Start Menu, some loved, some hated, but you could restore it to the Classic Start Menu. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe XP is Microsoft's best ever selling OS. I do believe it's because of silly, but small options like this that make all the difference.

  11. #41

    localzuk's Avatar
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    The whole argument that the original start menu wouldn't work with high PPI screens is a silly one. Microsoft could have made one which works with it. The issue is basically one of vector vs bitmap graphics...

    No, Microsoft have done this simply because they want a slice of the walled garden "app store" approach to doing things.

    They just haven't yet put any effort into dealing with business requirements.

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  13. #43
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    I would deploy windows 8 if you could lock the home screen down more, configure it so specific apps are in specific places, and, obviously, stop the little devils changing the background. Love it on my desktop and tablet. You do get used to the new start screen, the only times I'm using a Modern app is for school emails (OWA Anywhere doesn't work through our LA's reverse proxy), and occasionally the people app for updating twitter. I use a lot more apps on my tablet, but that's because it's a tablet. *enter key still doesn't work in Metro IE*. The new features that are coming for Windows 8.1 look really good, but there is still a way to go, more GPO options please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickbro View Post
    I would deploy windows 8 if you could lock the home screen down more, configure it so specific apps are in specific places
    That can be done. You have to have a folder that all computers can access (like netlogon) and then some xcopy + group policy file permissions and you have a start menu that only you can modify which updates on user login.

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    Hmm, thanks for the info @arron, will have to have another play around when I get some free time

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