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Windows 8 Thread, Anyone deploying Windows 8 now? in Technical; I am unfortunately stuck in the badly financed UK education sector, where you're lucky if you have a schools agreement. ...
  1. #61
    Sheridan's Avatar
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    I am unfortunately stuck in the badly financed UK education sector, where you're lucky if you have a schools agreement. So we would only upgrade to Windows 8 as part of a hardware upgrade, and from testing with some Win8 laptops we've found 8 to be buggy (especially IE10) and offering nothing over 7, apart from the fact you have to learn a new way to find your Apps.

    I'm all for progress - but this isn't progress, for a desktop OS its change for changes sake. As a tablet OS it works fine, and the fact the MS want to compete in the tablet/touchscreen market is understandable. But 8 on a standard desktop (that was probably running XP or 7 previously) is just not worth doing. If people are finding 8 works for them then great, but students using BYOD devices is an easy test for 8 - stick on their wireless access and they can do what they like on their laptop. Managing them on a 2008 domain is a different matter and we've found the policy side isn't good enough to configure them easily. We don't have the luxury of setting up spare servers running MDT etc to mass deploy so using WDS to dump Win7 images is our better choice for the next 12 months or so.

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    wow. I was almost waiting for someone like you. First of all MDT is as small or as big as you like it and is installed on the same server as WDS and is tiny, untill you add in your truckload of drivers. So thats that.

    IE 10 we have had no problems with as of yet. (except our virus scanner was not allowing java to run, which has now been fixed) In IE 10 you need to set trusted sites, intranet sites using the zone assignment policy or some of them with display messages.

    We dont have the best funding either but enough for a volume licencing agreement and enough to keep everything running smoothly.

    Windows 8 in general for students should not bother offering apps as they, 1) are under developed 2) cannot be managed properly

    As for managing them, import the ADMX/ADM files on to a 2008r2 DC and its all go. Policies work fine and everything is groovy. I have yet not find a way to do something. I would say the only annoying windows 8 change is no custom logon background but i changed our from the purple to nice bright blue which is our schools colour and it seems to have gone down well.

  3. #63
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    Nice and patronising. We have issues with Win8 and you don't. Well done you.

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    As i have said in my previous posts. Mail me if you want help. I am more then happy to help anyone that needs it Sheridan. but also i dont like people saying that Windows 8 is so bad and horrible when it does work and seeems to on the most part be faster than windows 7. not to say has WAY less trouble with print drivers which i like

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    Vista did work, and in many ways was superior to XP. Didn't stop people hating it. I've got a few Windows 8 machines here - it's a pain IME. IE10 needed a hack to manage, WU seems to break pretty readily, managing the Start screen is a pain, and the interface is not well suited to a keyboard and mouse (so we only have it on tablets). It's a good OS really, with some bugs and problems. 8.1, like Windows 7, should address many of these.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3s-gtech View Post
    IE10 needed a hack to manage.
    I am interested why a hack was needed for this?

    Do you run WSUS for windows updates on your client computers? IF not i'd recommend this. I used our default WSUS policies for win 7 and it seems to work fine.

    The idea is not to manage the start screen but to give a default customization. We give our students our base programs that are installed on every pc eg Office 2013 and Live essentials 2012 Movie Maker and Photo Gallery. Then links for their network area, shared drives, desktop and a couple of other links to get on to their google drive and our horrible VLE. They can then customize as they see fit. If you do not want to give student this customization then a mandatory profile can be used. If you use GP to do a file copy of a shortcut needed in a particular profile on a class of pcs then copy to the start menu in %PROGRAMDATA%. This i think is how it seems to work but i have never used mandatory profiles so this may be inaccurate

    You say that its not suited for a keyboard and mouse however, once you know many of the shortcuts its much quicker to do things than in win 7.
    Last edited by jugglerjoe; 7th June 2013 at 12:12 PM.

  7. #67
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    The next release of Win8 should sort a lot of the issues that tbh should have been ironed out well before it was released. What with the delays on the release of the Surface Pro a few extra months development time may have been better rather than rushing out the OS to try and compete with the forbidden fruit but then making a right mess of it and all the negative feedback that's come as a result.

    The sad thing is that the OS itself does perform well and it's poorly though through \ stubborn design in some places where they've come unstuck. For example the search, MS were defending splitting it up in the initial release now have backtracked and putting it as a unified search, much easier to just do it first time as everyone wanted

    If enterprise app distribution isn't sorted on 8.1 MS really do deserve a kicking, not being able to centrally deploy Metro apps to the Start screen (even with MS flagship management tool) is really, really poor at the moment imo.

  8. Thanks to gshaw from:

    jugglerjoe (7th June 2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3s-gtech View Post
    Vista did work
    yeah but not until it hit SP2. The RTM version could not even access our shared drives on Windows Servers without taking minutes to load, and file copying was reported all over the internet as taking twice as long as XP at doing the same task, and thats just for starters of why Vista did far from work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gshaw View Post
    If enterprise app distribution isn't sorted on 8.1 MS really do deserve a kicking, not being able to centrally deploy Metro apps to the Start screen (even with MS flagship management tool) is really, really poor at the moment imo.
    Maybe they realize that nobody is using metro apps and everyone just wants the desktop improvements

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3s-gtech View Post
    Vista did work, and in many ways was superior to XP. Didn't stop people hating it. I've got a few Windows 8 machines here - it's a pain IME. IE10 needed a hack to manage, WU seems to break pretty readily, managing the Start screen is a pain, and the interface is not well suited to a keyboard and mouse (so we only have it on tablets). It's a good OS really, with some bugs and problems. 8.1, like Windows 7, should address many of these.
    Vista had a huge bug with file copy speeds for a long time. We never went near it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gshaw View Post
    If enterprise app distribution isn't sorted on 8.1 MS really do deserve a kicking, not being able to centrally deploy Metro apps to the Start screen (even with MS flagship management tool) is really, really poor at the moment imo.
    I 100% agree with this. even if you have to do it through scripts or powershell or GP. I dont care but they need to do it one way or another!

  13. #72

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    I am interested why a hack was needed for this?

    Do you run WSUS for windows updates on your client computers? IF not i'd recommend this. I used our default WSUS policies for win 7 and it seems to work fine.

    The idea is not to manage the start screen but to give a default customization. We give our students our base programs that are installed on every pc eg Office 2013 and Live essentials 2012 Movie Maker and Photo Gallery. Then links for their network area, shared drives, desktop and a couple of other links to get on to their google drive and our horrible VLE. They can then customize as they see fit. If you do not want to give student this customization then a mandatory profile can be used. If you use GP to do a file copy of a shortcut needed in a particular profile on a class of pcs then copy to the start menu in %PROGRAMDATA%. This i think is how it seems to work but i have never used mandatory profiles so this may be inaccurate

    You say that its not suited for a keyboard and mouse however, once you know many of the shortcuts its much quicker to do things than in win 7.
    Ha, yeah I'm not saying I even deployed Vista! We skipped from XP to 7 - not used Vista in anger on anything.

    IE10 cannot be natively managed using GPP on Server 2008R2 GPMC. Yes, you can use other methods (such as customising it before deployment, WTH?) but with IEM gone, GPP is the easiest way. Not supplying the updates to Server 2008 R2 to allow it to manage IE10 GPP, even though that OS can run it itself, is stupid.

    You say that its not suited for a keyboard and mouse however, once you know many of the shortcuts its much quicker to do things than in win 7. We use WSUS. Windows 8 has been flakey on it. Not had a problem with 2000, XP or 7 before it. Usually only needs fixing once - a domain rejoin on the affected machine prompts it to start updating again.

    We deploy a default customisation for the Start screen. This should be manageable by GPP or just GP. The current method of deploying the customised file is ridiculous - what is the point in having server management if you need to configure a basic element of the OS using a hack?

    Now, I work in a school. Some users struggle with right-clicking. Teaching them shortcuts instead of easy icons and links will cause their brains to melt and slip out of their ears.

    Don't take my post as an argument, it's a discussion on Windows 8 as it is. I feel it's at a similar stage to Vista on release - shows potential, but isn't ready yet. I've used it extensively, I've prepped my management systems for it, and I've played with the hardware. I still have no intention of deploying it other than to touchscreen devices - even stylus enabled tablets are staying on 7.

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    hmmm I didnt see the GPP for IE10 as a hack because the first thing we done before even installing Windows 8 was update our group policy stores with the ADM Templates from the ISO. and we also use the IEAK anyway and have a comprehensive list of what neeeds to be controlled that is written by my boss. However sometimes have found the branding msi's to be unstable. But i have not tested them or even seen them be created and he didnt know i had done a lot in GP either so probably just getting gay over nothing....

    I believe the idea is that your left hand isnt used much when your just generally using your pc so they have made it more ineractive, if you choose to be so your thumb/finger can sit on the windows button ready to do the required shortcut.

    We have staff laptops for every staff member who we are going to keep as windows 7 but the rest will be windows 8. All out Admin staff will have windows 8. we ran a small training session the other day and they all seemed to really enjoy it and were almost excited. me and my boss were absolutly stunned anyone turned up ahaha.

    indeed the start screen should be manageable and its highly gay its not done easier. I have to make our fully final start screens for windows 8 next week >_<
    What is your procedure at the moment for deploying a start screen?
    I used to use an automated task sequence to do mine but now, i login with an Admin account. Customise the start screen as we see fit (unpinning ABSOLUTLY everything that was there and starting from scratch, this puts a shortcut in the users roaming appdata) after that get up sysprep, boot to audit mode, sign in with built in admin account, copy files from the customised account to the default account, boot up back through the OOBE make a new user account sign into that and see hwo it is then trial and error.
    I have found you need to copy:
    - %APPDATA%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs
    - %LOCALAPPDATA%\Microsoft\Windows\ All 3 files that start with "Apps"

    and i believe thats it.

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugglerjoe View Post
    hmmm I didnt see the GPP for IE10 as a hack because the first thing we done before even installing Windows 8 was update our group policy stores with the ADM Templates from the ISO. and we also use the IEAK anyway and have a comprehensive list of what neeeds to be controlled that is written by my boss. However sometimes have found the branding msi's to be unstable. But i have not tested them or even seen them be created and he didnt know i had done a lot in GP either so probably just getting gay over nothing....

    I believe the idea is that your left hand isnt used much when your just generally using your pc so they have made it more ineractive, if you choose to be so your thumb/finger can sit on the windows button ready to do the required shortcut.

    We have staff laptops for every staff member who we are going to keep as windows 7 but the rest will be windows 8. All out Admin staff will have windows 8. we ran a small training session the other day and they all seemed to really enjoy it and were almost excited. me and my boss were absolutly stunned anyone turned up ahaha.

    indeed the start screen should be manageable and its highly gay its not done easier. I have to make our fully final start screens for windows 8 next week >_<
    What is your procedure at the moment for deploying a start screen?
    I used to use an automated task sequence to do mine but now, i login with an Admin account. Customise the start screen as we see fit (unpinning ABSOLUTLY everything that was there and starting from scratch, this puts a shortcut in the users roaming appdata) after that get up sysprep, boot to audit mode, sign in with built in admin account, copy files from the customised account to the default account, boot up back through the OOBE make a new user account sign into that and see hwo it is then trial and error.
    I have found you need to copy:
    - %APPDATA%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs
    - %LOCALAPPDATA%\Microsoft\Windows\ All 3 files that start with "Apps"

    and i believe thats it.
    Windows 8 start screen customization -

    Customize the start screen
    Copy the msdata file or w/e from %APPDATA%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs to a central location
    Setup GPP Files to copy that file to the local machine when the user logs in.

  16. #75

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    so is that just an apply once policy? or do you only let users have a certain layout?

    I use GPP Files to copy to Default Profile on the PC rather than applying on login. This then builds the profile around the 3 *.itemdata-ms files and the default set of programs. I have not tried your way but i was not aware there is a ms data file in %APPDATA%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs? I guess you meant the %LOCALAPPDATA%\Microsoft\Windows ?

    I copy the 3 itemdata-ms files and then i copy the whole folder of %APPDATA%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs then when something installs now i just have a script to clear up the %PROGRAMDATA%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu location so it only displays what i want. That then sticks a link on the end of the students desktop when they login. That way i find its easier for students to find what they need, and also acts like it would at home.

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