First day of use in anger and... I am angry

[mac_shinobi]

ha been playing with a mac over the weekend and it crashes more than vista imo no crashes for a while in vista adding photos to iphoto 2 crashes in 24 hours

What version OS and what version of application ie what version of iphoto ( assuming you were using iphoto )

Also if you had a mac, you would owe your mortgage to pay for it!

Windows 7 has worked perfectly for me!

Wrong and windows 7 versus snow leopard ? hhhmmmm hard to believe

I've installed, tiger, leopard and in september soon to be snow leopard and have never had any issues with drivers or been told check all your drivers and play around with your drivers.

I just installed it and it worked - done, done and Done !!

Burning cd's - not an issue either direct out the box or with software, again, Done, done and done !!

Paying a mortgage , nope because I don't have to pay for AV, firewall and you get iLife with a purchased mac which includes image software ( aka iPhoto ) , video editing iMovie and iDVD and if you need more then that you have the option to purchase video editing software at reasonable prices.

To top it off they make the OS for the hardware that they make so less chance of BSOD ( kernel panics in the OS X / *nix world ) and with them being intel based can run windows ( boot camp assistant ) and can run linux etc

Apple seem to charge more for RAM - which I purchase or would do from RAM Memory Upgrade: Dell, Mac, Apple, HP, Compaq. USB drives, flash cards, SSD at Crucial.com or elsewhere.

[SYNACK]

Wrong and windows 7 versus snow leopard ? hhhmmmm hard to believe

I've installed, tiger, leopard and in september soon to be snow leopard and have never had any issues with drivers or been told check all your drivers and play around with your drivers.

I just installed it and it worked - done, done and Done !!

Burning cd's - not an issue either direct out the box or with software, again, Done, done and done !!

Paying a mortgage , nope because I don't have to pay for AV, firewall and you get iLife with a purchased mac which includes image software ( aka iPhoto ) , video editing iMovie and iDVD and if you need more then that you have the option to purchase video editing software at reasonable prices.

To top it off they make the OS for the hardware that they make so less chance of BSOD ( kernel panics in the OS X / *nix world ) and with them being intel based can run windows ( boot camp assistant ) and can run linux etc

Apple seem to charge more for RAM - which I purchase or would do from RAM Memory Upgrade: Dell, Mac, Apple, HP, Compaq. USB drives, flash cards, SSD at Crucial.com or elsewhere.

I though you were leaving , that is what that smiley is for...

Anyhow addressing your aspursions. You have not needed to play with drivers because you have a choice of comparitively nothing when it comes to your hardware. Your OS vendor/religion makes the hardware too and so they know exactly what to bundle. Congratulations, by giving away your own choice to a company you get an easy path but trade your rights for it.

I guess you did not hear about the batch of OSX installers that killed the boot section of the drives on several revisions of macs or the firmware update that was not checked for, warned about or patched making various upgrades fail - and this is in your controlled limited system of hardware .

The software card, oh how fantastic, mac bundles everything. MS has tried that and governments get involved, its not their fault your government gets ansy. No AV, there are viruses for Mac, just not that many. There are also lots of unpatched security vunrabilities that get left for months at a time. There may be less of a need for that software but I would not say no need.

Bluescreens, I have seen two in Vista ever over 100's of pcs, one because of a hard drive that was practically in bits and the other because of a blown GPU.

Oooo, you can run linux and windows, wow. The fact that you have to state that your company of choice lets you do that is an inditement in itself.

Of course they charge more for ram, how are you supposed to convice people that your stuff is better if you don't inflate your prices to match.

Look, I know that I have jumped in to the OS war again and that it has probably ruined this thread, for that I appologise. But seriously, are you (Mac) running the beta of the next OSX? and would you even dare render an oppinion in opposition to your company of choices will?

[mac_shinobi]

I though you were leaving , that is what that smiley is for...

I did until the above comments were made by nephilim and sted which I quoted in my above comment as you can see do the get me coat as it was just a one liner and I never intended to start a flame war as per my other above comment where I stated if it was out of the box burning or if it was an actual application but yet again I did not get a reply so I left it at that until I got those 2 comments about having to take out a mortgage etc

Anyhow addressing your aspursions. You have not needed to play with drivers because you have a choice of comparitively nothing when it comes to your hardware. Your OS vendor/religion makes the hardware too and so they know exactly what to bundle. Congratulations, by giving away your own choice to a company you get an easy path but trade your rights for it.

I guess you did not hear about the batch of OSX installers that killed the boot section of the drives on several revisions of macs or the firmware update that was not checked for, warned about or patched making various upgrades fail - and this is in your controlled limited system of hardware .

I use the officially supplied discs that came with my mac to restore them and again would purchase the official snow leopard discs when they are out and supplied by apple and no one else so not sure how this would be an issue and even if it was I purchased the apple care so again would go back to apple for them to repair / replace. Yes I could of done the same with Dell but then I would only be limited to Windows / Linux or maybe free BSD and seeing as I paid for it I wanted Apple because I also wanted the legitimate option of you guessed it Mac OS X

The software card, oh how fantastic, mac bundles everything. MS has tried that and governments get involved, its not their fault your government gets ansy. No AV, there are viruses for Mac, just not that many. There are also lots of unpatched security vunrabilities that get left for months at a time. There may be less of a need for that software but I would not say no need.

Apple actually go to the correct places and so get the licensing in the first place hence there incorporated dvd player unlike windows media player which oh you have to purchase a license for ie power dvd or use VLC - which oh yeah thats it is illegal to use because of the libraries it uses etc

Bluescreens, I have seen two in Vista ever over 100's of pcs, one because of a hard drive that was practically in bits and the other because of a blown GPU.

Oooo, you can run linux and windows, wow. The fact that you have to state that your company of choice lets you do that is an inditement in itself.

Of course they charge more for ram, how are you supposed to convice people that your stuff is better if you don't inflate your prices to match.

Look, I know that I have jumped in to the OS war again and that it has probably ruined this thread, for that I appologise. But seriously, are you (Mac) running the beta of the next OSX? and would you even dare render an oppinion in opposition to your company of choices will?

Glad to finally see Microsoft do something positive hence less BSOD's etc but at the end of the day its still Microsoft and in comparison to any *nix is lets be honest no where near as good.

As for charging more for items - hence the url I gave afterwards for the RAM and I never said that just because they charge more means its better in quality or anything else.

I went for apple because I know it works and does what I want it to and also because I am fed up of having to constantly upgrade graphics cards, flash cmos / bioses every 2 seconds because of adding support for x, y , z etc

I just wanted to come home , have it run ( minus the BSOD's or driver issues ) and just be able to run the applications and it does that for me.

As for Microsoft trying to include software well windows movie maker versus iMovie / iDVD in terms of ease of use and what it can do. Argue if you like but at the end of the day Macs are better for audio / video which is why graphics companies and other places use them.

Bottom line is this is my opinion(s) and also I paid for my mac because I wanted it not anyone else.

[synaesthesia]

Lets not turn this into a mac vs PC thread eh I don't like Apple for their marketing with less truth than the average politicians speech and their inflated pricing, but each has their uses in their own ways. I fully expect that because of PC's very nature, the PC will go the way of specialist use only. And of course I make lots of money from idiot Apple users by marketing cheap generic PC memory as "apple compatible" and selling it at literally twice the RRP.

Either way, for as long as PC's have the plethora of hardware combinations, there will be issues. Most people are very very surprised that they cope this well with literally billions of different combos. Windows 7 so far seems to be doing very well - a mile better than Vista managed upon it's full release and certainly better than XP. I don't therefore think it's fair to go slagging off any party as yet. Plus of course we are lucky enough to have a choice - 2 previous versions of Windows that won't limit us, limitless free Linux based OS's - and of course PC and Mac themselves. Use what you're comfortable with, use what the industry you're in uses, mix and match to suit and as a result everyone will benefit. As said, I really dislike Apple and Apple hardware, but with the amount of it in use in, for example the media industry, you'd be a fool to discount working with it and not exposing students to it.

[SYNACK]

Ah, we are all free to have our own opinions and that is fine. I don't want to further drag this thread into an OS war and just wanted to set a few of the commonly used misconceptions strait in the above post which I knew was stupid at the time and got carried away into a monologue accidentilly.

@mac_shinobi - You can't complain about being the victim here as it was your 'one liner' in a Windows forum that caused those responces. Either way this little sub discussion is at an end as I would rather retunr to the original topic of Windows 7 and our current experiences/concerns with it.

[Michael]

Back on topic...

Windows 7 has only recently RTM'ed, so inevitably it will take some time for OEMs to start installing it by default on new machines they sell to customers. I don't discard what fellow members have written about their experiences of Windows 7, but I suspect you're probably running slightly varying OS builds which could make all the difference!

Windows 7 like Windows Vista will most probably have a huge driver database, so many hardware devices should be installed by default (which is handy). This leaves just applications and I suspect this will probably cause many of us the most headaches. Many applications requiring updates or new versions altogether to work on Windows 7.

People also dislike change. I still remember how much users disliked XP's Playskool look but it's not really discussed anymore, most of us just accept it Realistically the earliest I would consider deploying Windows 7 in a real environment would be in 2010, but by all means, lets share our initial testing experiences. It makes an interesting read.

[Theblacksheep]

With the latest builds I've noticed a difference in boot speed and not had the 2 random crashes I've had with the RC.

I've not used IE8 enough to know a difference as my vista and 7 installs on my main PC both run firefox only using IE for those management tools that need IE (our HP stuff).

I've found explorer feature when on the start bar very annoying because it defaults to the 'library' and I just want it to show the root. I know it can be changed but its not initally very intuative or a control panel job.

XP mode is really rubbish and should really be integrated rather than tacked on.

[mac_shinobi]

Ah, we are all free to have our own opinions and that is fine. I don't want to further drag this thread into an OS war and just wanted to set a few of the commonly used misconceptions strait in the above post which I knew was stupid at the time and got carried away into a monologue accidentilly.

@mac_shinobi - You can't complain about being the victim here as it was your 'one liner' in a Windows forum that caused those responces. Either way this little sub discussion is at an end as I would rather retunr to the original topic of Windows 7 and our current experiences/concerns with it.

yes but it was a tongue in cheek comment and as stated above I did return to the topic in my 2nd comment

[sted]

What version OS and what version of application ie what version of iphoto ( assuming you were using iphoto )

10.5.7 osx as to iphoto whatever was installed / system update upgraded it to (the computer was new out the box on friday)

[mac_shinobi]

10.5.7 osx as to iphoto whatever was installed / system update upgraded it to (the computer was new out the box on friday)

I normally tend to wipe what image they put on it because you normally find they install all the printer drivers under the sun along with all the languages ( chinese, russian, japanese etc etc ) so I wipe it compeltely and do a customised install from the OS Discs and leave the languages and the printer drivers off and only install the rest ie extra apps inc iphoto etc and once installed run the disk util to check permissions and then do the all in one update for 10.5.7 unless your disc is already 10.5.7 or w/e version was shipped with your comp.

I've not had iphoto crash on me yet but I have only got the 08 version not the latest which is 09

[GrumbleDook]

Just to get back to the unimportant conversation (ie macs or windows) I have found that Windows 7 on all builds I have worked with has only ever crashed once on my MacBookPro, and that was actually when running it on Parallels. Natively (ie via bootCamp) not a problem.

The only machine I have had a problem with is an old Tosh and that was mainly due to too little RAM (512) but was fine after bumping it to 1 gig.

[tmcd35]

Just to get back to the unimportant conversation (ie macs or windows) I have found that Windows 7 on all builds I have worked with has only ever crashed once on my MacBookPro, and that was actually when running it on Parallels. Natively (ie via bootCamp) not a problem.

Well if we're gonna have this conversation then we may as well move the flame war over to Parallels v Fusion (should this now be in the mac or virtualisation forum?). The only time I've had to try Win7 was on VMWare Fusion on my MacBookPro - no probs, quite liked it. Actually looking forward o playing with it properly (there we can keep this thread here - I mentioned Win7 ).

[mac_shinobi]

Well if we're gonna have this conversation then we may as well move the flame war over to Parallels v Fusion (should this now be in the mac or virtualisation forum?). The only time I've had to try Win7 was on VMWare Fusion on my MacBookPro - no probs, quite liked it. Actually looking forward o playing with it properly (there we can keep this thread here - I mentioned Win7 ).

or suns virtual box - I tried windows 7 on vmware fusion and bootcamp fine on both accounts for me

[mac_shinobi]

Just to get back to the unimportant conversation (ie macs or windows) I have found that Windows 7 on all builds I have worked with has only ever crashed once on my MacBookPro, and that was actually when running it on Parallels. Natively (ie via bootCamp) not a problem.

The only machine I have had a problem with is an old Tosh and that was mainly due to too little RAM (512) but was fine after bumping it to 1 gig.

I tried the trial of parralels a number of times and have had problems with it - either Im being a numpty ( nothing new there and I was doing something wrong ) or it just sucks and its meant to be able to use boot camp partitions and it was trying to index it or do something and it fell over half way through and then vmware fusion couldnt use the boot camp partition so I just backed up a few files from that partition and started from scratch using vmware fusion

[nephilim]

@Mac_Shinobi: My comment was meant about purchasing a brand new MAC, not the operating system. Sorry for the confusion.

@Original Topic: Windows 7 has doen well to cope with the possible billions of combinations. Having spoken to one of the developers via MSDNAA, he told me that they spoke with 95% of manufacturers when it came to windows 7, so that they could have the drivers built in for almost all hardware. There are issues with some, but to date, I have yet to have any.