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Web Development Thread, What to charge for web development in Coding and Web Development; Originally Posted by Little-Miss sorry to hijack! You are welcome Originally Posted by Little-Miss But then he mentioned that he ...
  1. #16

    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little-Miss View Post
    sorry to hijack!
    You are welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Little-Miss View Post
    But then he mentioned that he would like it updated. Now i've never done that before. Ive usually just create "brochure" sites for startup businesses. How shall i handle it...
    This was going to be my next question, after the initial setup there might be ongoing updating work. Not sure how to handle this either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSNM-Carl View Post
    Do you have the relevant skills to design & develop a website? Or is "create a website" just uploading Joomla with a few tweaks to a template?

    I guess it depends on the functionality they want on the website really, I'm not a fan of per hour rates I'd much prefer a "fixed price".
    Im not using joomla, doing pretty much all by code and a bit of dreamweaver to save time doing the javascripting stuff like roll over buttons. I am also designing a new logo for the school. They asked me what my hourly rate was and i said that much (just of the top of my head) and they agreed, asked how long it would take so i said at top wack the 150 hours, knowing full well it wouldn't take that long, but i am not going to rip them off, my mate works there, they had a quote from another company which was lots of money more then that ph! She rang me and i said i would do it for 22.50 and they agreed, as was the cheapest option for all of them and they liked the look of websites i had done before, also I could add extra options in there for them like the self submitting Contact form, the other companies they had quotes from would not do it how they wanted it to do.

    Toby

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSNM-Carl View Post
    Do you have the relevant skills to design & develop a website? Or is "create a website" just uploading Joomla with a few tweaks to a template?
    Do you have the skills to develop software? Are you going to design your programming language from scratch or are you just going to use an off the shelf solution like Visual Studio?

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    Do you have the skills to develop software? Are you going to design your programming language from scratch or are you just going to use an off the shelf solution like Visual Studio?
    i don't think that's a fair comparison.

    IF someone is tweaking an existing template, then that often shows up in the quality of the site. Not always, but a lot of the time.

    Whereas someone who really knows their stuff, to create their own CSS templates, to incorporate into their own CMS, or a commercial CMS, or even an open source CMS....may have a better time in justifying their premiums when you look closely at the finished product. the advantage of using an open source CMS and focusing it's use on old fashioned content updating is that it can save the client money in licensing fees and consultancy costs.

    However there are many who see the CMS advantage in quick and dirty turnaround of web projects, and then charging quite high fixed prices, for effectively assembling something rather than creating. It's in the creation where the value is in my view.....nothing wrong with saving yourself time, but then that should be reflected in the price. I mean, c'mon, it's not as if there's a dearth of people out there capable of reusing existing templates for quick delivery of projects. Because of that i think some of the prices some people charge is just pie in the sky. [I'm not saying that is the case with the posters on this thread]

    the only way is to compare and contrast between sites which use the mentioned routes. And it's all about opinions at the end of the day.

  5. #20

    powdarrmonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    Do you have the skills to develop software? Are you going to design your programming language from scratch or are you just going to use an off the shelf solution like Visual Studio?
    whut?



    .

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    i don't think that's a fair comparison.

    IF someone is tweaking an existing template, then that often shows up in the quality of the site. Not always, but a lot of the time.

    Whereas someone who really knows their stuff, to create their own CSS templates, to incorporate into their own CMS, or a commercial CMS, or even an open source CMS....may have a better time in justifying their premiums when you look closely at the finished product. the advantage of using an open source CMS and focusing it's use on old fashioned content updating is that it can save the client money in licensing fees and consultancy costs.

    However there are many who see the CMS advantage in quick and dirty turnaround of web projects, and then charging quite high fixed prices, for effectively assembling something rather than creating. It's in the creation where the value is in my view.....nothing wrong with saving yourself time, but then that should be reflected in the price. I mean, c'mon, it's not as if there's a dearth of people out there capable of reusing existing templates for quick delivery of projects. Because of that i think some of the prices some people charge is just pie in the sky. [I'm not saying that is the case with the posters on this thread]

    the only way is to compare and contrast between sites which use the mentioned routes. And it's all about opinions at the end of the day.
    OK it was a bit harsh but it is the market that should decide the going rate after all, I don't think it is helpful to say that using CMS is 'cheating' or intending to rip people off. They sign up for a website not the method of assembling the website and unless they put in the contract that want everything designed from scratch it is perfectly reasonable to adapt a template.

  7. #22
    ICT_GUY's Avatar
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    Justifying premiums? I justify my premium by the fact that I get well paid and my customers are happy

    Work smart not hard.

  8. Thanks to ICT_GUY from:

    torledo (24th February 2010)

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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    OK it was a bit harsh but it is the market that should decide the going rate after all, I don't think it is helpful to say that using CMS is 'cheating' or intending to rip people off. They sign up for a website not the method of assembling the website and unless they put in the contract that want everything designed from scratch it is perfectly reasonable to adapt a template.
    oh yeah, for sure it's reasonalbe if you can a) get away with not being very original OR b) the client is happy with the end product regardless. I don't want to sneer at the methods chosen, just that the client maybe needs to wise up in a lot of cases.....and understand in what cases what they are getting can or can't be easily replicated, and at what cost.

    But as i say, it's not as if there isn't a great deal of competition out there. And i'm not sure about the idea of identifiable market rates for small web projects. I've seen such variances in the past for relatively small project quotes..., and as for the idea of charging by the hour.....if a designer/developer is effectively doing minor tweaking of existing designs/templates and then packaging them as a 'new' website, then that doesn't strike me as it take's much imagination or man hours - not at some of the rates and fixed prices that i've seen quoted.... ofcourse there's potentially the margins in support work and further tweaks down the road.....kerching!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little-Miss View Post
    sorry to hijack!

    This is quite and interesting thread because ive got a guy who wants me to build him a site to show off his fine art collection (ooer!). This is fine, im happy to do it. The guy knows nothing though ("what will happen to my website when i turn my computer off at night?").

    But then he mentioned that he would like it updated. Now i've never done that before. Ive usually just create "brochure" sites for startup businesses. How shall i handle it...
    When I worked in a pub a few years ago, they had a website that was run by a guy kind of like what you have said above, he used to do for minor changes minimum of £20 which was first hours work then £10 per half hour after that. but was never more then 40 quid charge for the guy who did it in his evenings. nice for 2 hours work!

    Toby

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    The same thing happens in other areas thought take solicitors they often use standard letters just changing the details around but still charge the same as if they prepared everything from scratch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ICT_GUY View Post
    You can check out my side line here DorsetWebDesigns Generally £50 per page with a minimum of £500 for a site.
    Your site does not validate. Not a good start.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    Do you have the skills to develop software? Are you going to design your programming language from scratch or are you just going to use an off the shelf solution like Visual Studio?
    Nope, I'm not a developer.

    I didn't say there was anything wrong with off the shelf products, but lots of people claim to be "web designers" when they simply upload Joomla and a theme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    Im not using joomla, doing pretty much all by code and a bit of dreamweaver to save time doing the javascripting stuff like roll over buttons. I am also designing a new logo for the school. They asked me what my hourly rate was and i said that much (just of the top of my head) and they agreed, asked how long it would take so i said at top wack the 150 hours, knowing full well it wouldn't take that long, but i am not going to rip them off, my mate works there, they had a quote from another company which was lots of money more then that ph! She rang me and i said i would do it for 22.50 and they agreed, as was the cheapest option for all of them and they liked the look of websites i had done before, also I could add extra options in there for them like the self submitting Contact form, the other companies they had quotes from would not do it how they wanted it to do.

    Toby
    Sorry, it seems my post came across the wrong way. I'm not in anyway suggesting you are going to rip them off.

    Good luck with it and don't forgot to show us the finished site.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfFlame View Post
    Your site does not validate. Not a good start.
    Neither does CNN.com and their budgets are a lot bigger than mine.

    And please dont get me started on Edugeek 19 errors for my site compared to a whopping 87 errors for edugeek with 28 Warnings !
    Last edited by ICT_GUY; 24th February 2010 at 03:05 PM.

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    I think something that a lot of places forget is that once the site is made how do you keep it running. I have not come across anything which is as simple to teach as Joomla and yet people still seem to be reinventing the wheel.

    I find it hard to believe they couldn't find anyone who would do it cheaper than £3000, we have only been looking for a little bit and have already had quotes for 1/6th that!!!

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