When is it appropriate for students to learn how to web pages?

[sreiach]

:: I now realize this should be in the "Web Design Forum" but I don't see how to move it ::
I had a board member cast a shot across the bow by sending an email saying, "We don't use technology. Our students don't even know how to make a website."

This board member's 'real life' job is websites. However, we are also a laptop school with a focus on technology.

Now, I read the email and thought about it for a moment. Then realized what a load of cow dung the statement was.

Unless you can incorporate it into a class of 'Digital Publishing' where you can compare desktop publishing, online publishing; talk about audience, color schemes, graphic design etc. Whats the point? I don't see any point in teaching a bunch of 13 year olds that in order to make a web page they need to separate structure from design using HTML and CSS. I'm just going to end up with a bunch of poorly coded web pages full of <FONT> tags. Black with purple writing and more animated GIF's then I can shake a stick at. When are 99% of them actually going to use it?

What do your schools do? How/why does it incorporate web design? I know this is a curriculum question but my responsibilities include technology incorporation.

I have moved the thread to the web development forum as you wanted
Geoff - EduGeek Forum Moderator

[TechMonkey]

Ohhh it's a conversation that I have had with the teachers here many a time. The whole give them the rough basics of html or a proper grounding in designing websites. They were doing websites in Word and Publisher but we now have Front Page which I guess is a step up. But to be fair they have a very little time to do each module so even databases aren't taught fully (well in my mind).
I'll ask the teachers though what they include it under.

[russdev]

Here we teach them basics of html and then design the site in serif pageplus (very good piece of software by the way for students).

But interesting side science tech asked me other day about some basic guides to html for her daughter (aged 13) as she wants to use it on various social networking sites...



Russ

[mrforgetful]

Our Year 7s learn web design.

Various programs are used throughout the school, thankfully Word was never used and thankfully Frontpage is being phased out.

Now it's a mix of Notepad and Dreamweaver 8 / Dreamweaver CS3 using mainly Fireworks for images but some Photoshop and obviously Flash for...well...flash.

Some basics are missed out though like directories having capitals and spaces, the first page to be called index.htm etc etc...

As with all work I see there are some real dire attempts and some really professional ones too.

[mark]

Seems a bit of a dodo science. No one wordprocesses with tags nowadays, soon web design will be the same.

Our sch teaches Dreamweaver, which does more harm than good most of the time I think. I started a few kids off on basic html and pointed them to w3schools etc which at the moment I think is a true grounding. Part of DiDA is the production of a web site presentation of the coursework which we do here.

[StewartKnight]

We teach web design at Y8

[russdev]

I think you have to be realistic about this a student needs to very basic understanding of it.

so here we teach what page template is like and what basic tags such as h1, b, i href do. But at this age that is all they need anyone wanting to go on further with it will do but think it is unrealistic and unnecessary for them to learn it.

What we should be teaching good website design instead like we teach PowerPoint aka no scrolling text.

Russ

[mrforgetful]

I disagree, I want all the students by year 8 to be able to at least knock something up like Amazon's....

...only joking

[Ryan]

<b> is deprecated, they should be using <strong>!

</nitpicking>

Sorry, couldn't resist. My old day job was webdesign/dev too. I tried to show a few of our kids a bit of the basics (notepad and IE side by side, save-refresh) at the end of a term, but their attentions spans (or lack thereof) got the better of them.

They use Word for a little part of the curriculum that demands a simple web site, which winds me up no end

[mrforgetful]

<b> is deprecated, they should be using <strong>!

</nitpicking>

Sorry, couldn't resist. My old day job was webdesign/dev too. I tried to show a few of our kids a bit of the basics (notepad and IE side by side, save-refresh) at the end of a term, but their attentions spans (or lack thereof) got the better of them.

They use Word for a little part of the curriculum that demands a simple web site, which winds me up no end

Well if we're nitpicking....tags should always... BE IN CAPITALS

[Ryan]

BUT IN FORUMS THAT MEANS SHOUTING!!

[mrforgetful]

Indeed it does...I had a point to make lol.

Does mean we all shout the first letter of our sentances?

[Ryan]

Haha! I just pictured that - starting each sentence very loudly, then tailing off to a normal tone.

Anyhoo, back on topic!

[witch]

It is in the curriculum - here taught at Year 8 - and yes, they use Word.
But it gives them a basic idea and frankly there is no time for anything else.

[enjay]

I had a board member cast a shot across the bow by sending an email saying, "We don't use technology. Our students don't even know how to make a website."

This board member's 'real life' job is websites.

That is like a Board member who is an accomplished surgeon saying "we don't use Biology. The students can't even perform open heart surgery." No school student will be able to do something as well as a professional, and it isn't fair to judge their competence by those standards.

There is no harm in teaching web design (although we only very briefly touch on it) if you feel that the students benefit from this and that it enhances other areas of the teaching. Personally, I think that a good grasp of word processing, spreadsheets and DTP will stand the students in a far better position when they leave for the Big Wide World than knowing how to code a web site.