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Web Development Thread, When is it appropriate for students to learn how to web pages? in Coding and Web Development; Originally Posted by mrforgetful Well if we're nitpicking....tags should always... BE IN CAPITALS Depends which language :P If it is ...
  1. #16

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrforgetful View Post
    Well if we're nitpicking....tags should always... BE IN CAPITALS
    Depends which language :P If it is XHTML then it should be lower case, HTML should be uppercase. Do I win the pedant competition?

    We teach the basics of web design in year 7 I believe. And we use Dreaweaver and Fireworks.

    We also teach the basics of DTP (creating a leaflet, IIRC). But I do not know if they are linked or not.

    The OP has brought up an interesting point though - why do we teach people website design without linking it with its other related skills - programming and design. Website 'Design' should be taught as an art or graphics subject, and Website 'Programming' should be taught as an ICT subject. And then the 2 area's linked with cross curriculum planning. This is unlikely to ever occur though...

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    PEO
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    My 12 year old brother has learned php, html and java on his own. Teachers at his school are amazed by his ability to learn something from tutorials and then adapt and creat his own stuff.

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    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    I think once they are OK with using a wordprocessor or a DTP package then they can do web pages.

    My daughters did this age 10-11 - I showed them how to do it in Word using tables and how an animated GIF can jazz up a simple page. They were able to do the hyperlinking themselves. I did the uploading.

    The pages are still up if you want to have a look

    http://www.geocities.com/siwalters_uk/meghome.htm

    regards
    Simon

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    Scotmk's Avatar
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    Bah

    <rant>

    Our year 10's have started doing websites, they are doing it publisher, no html code is being explained to them, and I am shocked that they are being allowed to create them as they are, I saw them being shown a website on how not to do a page, (awful colours, massive text, etc) all the things that are bad.

    Then they were told to created a new website for the school, so what did they all do, basically cut and copy my lovely (edugeek based joomla site) and then break it up paste i into publisher and kill it (sob), terrible, I know they are learning, but this is no different to doing something in Powerpoint, I think they should be learning much more than just visual, and even in this case, thats not working.

    </rant>.

  5. #20

    webman's Avatar
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    Ours are taught to use PowerPoint in KS3 to make web pages. Sadly it doesn't get much better when they start to use FrontPage in Year 10/11
    Last edited by webman; 25th January 2008 at 11:23 AM.

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    PEO
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    Dreamwever here. In fact we have macromedia flash and fireworks too. Kids here learn to use it in year 10 and 11. had no problems so far

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    Reminds me of one of our parents - ran a software company - who was always complaining that we did not teach C. We often think our own expertise ought to be common knowledge.
    As far as web development is concerned I have only ever created very simple pages using notepad or FPExpress, to let people understand how web pages work.
    The question I always ask is, what is the point? What am I trying to achieve?
    I've never found a reason for creating good, well designed web sites. Issues of good visual design, appropriateness for audience, effective communication, etc., I find, can all be taught through DTP with fewer technical distractions.
    My take on web sites & "the internet" is that we are all primarily readers / users / consumers and I want to teach pupils to be good at that. Some, perhaps many, will at some time be creators and then I would expect them to use whatever tools are to hand and the understanding they have as users. Other than the understanding of web structure and of the sort of tools available, I teach little about creating web sites.

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    The teachers teach year 8 to 10 web design here and use ExpressionWeb and macromedia flash we then ended up setting up a IIS server on a little GX150 so they could upload there web sites internally and view them.

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    If the purpose is to teach web design, teach some basic HTML and use a CMS.
    Does anyone really make a website from scratch these days - even the technical people will install joomla/drupal/plone rather than design from ground up and the students will already be familiar with CMS (BEBO/Facebook)
    Personally I wish all students were taught computing properly but they are not -its the same argument for HTML/language vs CMS as it is with command line vs gui.
    Last edited by CyberNerd; 25th January 2008 at 12:11 PM.

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    Isn't it all down to the curriculum that ICT as a subject, follow? Ideally this should provide knowledge to students on how things work and how to get things done.

    Creating a website in Word/PowerPoint is a bad idea as students don't know what's going on because the resulting document is not a web page and is using the wrong tool for the job - teaching bad practices. Using a CMS doesn't go as far as explaining HTML code and how pages link to eachother without having to explain the layers inbetween. A CMS can give you a website but it's not the only way to do it.

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    Ryan's Avatar
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    @dbrown
    You raise a very important point mate - should they be taught how to make sites before they understand how to use the web properly. How many kids click adverts to win an Xbox 360? (we'll ignore what happens next for now) Or type domain names into Google?

    @CyberNerd
    I still build from scratch Granted, i use Dreamweaver nowadays to speed up the process, but i still like to get my hands dirty. I like to know what's happening in the background. I distrust anything (Word, yes, i'm looking at you) that doesn't allow complete control over what you're writing.


    And yep, web design (usability, colour co-ordination, accessibility, etc) is very different from web development (programming, coding, scripting, DB design and administration) - should the two be taught together? Or just get their feet wet and they can pursue it further if they are more intrested?

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