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Virtual Learning Platforms Thread, Anyone Using Frog? in Technical; In reply to those who asked about our usernames - we have over 2000 students, Y7 to Y13. First, using ...
  1. #31
    clareq's Avatar
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    In reply to those who asked about our usernames - we have over 2000 students, Y7 to Y13. First, using the Year of entry into Y7 cuts down on duplicate usernames (We use Year of entry into Y7 Surname First initial, and the number of families who like their children to all have the same initial is huge!) and possibly more important, we need to be able to tell by looking at the username what year the user is in - if only to prevent the use of sibling usernames to bypass Internet filtering, as sixth form have a different filtering level to Y7. I do import a csv at the beginning of the year, but it seems to overwrite students randomly when the SIMS import is run daily for attendance data. We have at least one new student every week, and having to go into frog to set them up there as well as in AD is an annoying extra step. I've open calls with frog every year, and all I get is the instructions on how to run a csv!
    All I want to resolve it is, rather than grouping all students together as "students" with one template, allow me to create a template for each year group. That way I can use a text field for the "year of entry into Y7" part of the username, and I can set the path to the userarea, rather than having to do that by csv as well. All new students would be automatically enrolled in frog from SIMS, and I would just have to change the text field for each group once a year.

  2. #32
    mthomas08's Avatar
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    Sorry to bring this thread back to the front but were any of these issues fixed?

    I noticed this post is some months old!

    We are looking at frog and really want it by April, have a gov meeting in 2 weeks to persuade them. At the moment we have Year7 on the year they started then username so 06BobsYourUncle but yr12+ are BobsY. So does that mean I will have to alter their usernames? does sims still do some kind of over write? we are aiming to pretty much go for everything. Secure/Parent gateway etc, we have AD for the link and really hope to have little issues.

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    themightymrp's Avatar
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    @mthomas08 - we have only recently had our Frog server installed and we are still setting up the initial user account creation. However the issues mentioned in this thread with regards usernames have NOT been fixed yet!

    We use CMIS instead of SIMS and the automatic export creates its usernames for Frog based upon the data it finds. Unfortunately we don't have a standardised format for student usernames in the AD A lot of the usernames it generates don't match with what we have. For example, ALL of our student accounts start with year of entry (eg Year 7 starts 10, Year 8 starts 09 etc) but then we have a mixture of either first 4 letters of the surname followed by first initial OR full surname and first initial. The format was changed a couple of years ago to try to cut down on duplicate usernames. However we still have the problem where 2 accounts might be the same and so one account will use 2 letters from the forename! Such as 09SmithJa and 09SmithJ.

    Frog support don't have an answer for us, just to do the export and edit routine. Why can't it pull usernames straight from the AD??!!!! It also seems to have a limit of 10 characters from the surname which is a bit of a git when you have some double barrelled names.

    It looks like we may have to go down the export, edit, import routine as mentioned above. It would be nice to be able to have different rules per yeargroup as that would mean there would only be a handful to manually change. I'm worried that the auto export tool will overwrite accounts though or worse add extra accounts into the list giving 2 per user!!

    So far, not too impressed

  4. #34
    oxide54's Avatar
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    we're not, but all you could see round kensington today was people with frog goodie bags!

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    mthomas08's Avatar
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    I am going to ask around to our local Frog schools to see how they got through it, I would rather not add to my manual daily routine. Main reason why I have time on my hands is because I get rid of these routines and get things permanently working (although things still go wrong).

    As for Frog BETT, I will be one of those goody bag people, I already have a collection and it will be good as onsite promoting and getting the attention of students to have the goodies

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    Quote Originally Posted by themightymrp View Post
    Frog support don't have an answer for us, just to do the export and edit routine. Why can't it pull usernames straight from the AD??!!!! It also seems to have a limit of 10 characters from the surname which is a bit of a git when you have some double barrelled names.
    When you create your users in AD do you import directly from your MIS? If so, and you have included your pupils UID/UPN number?

    You can use a CSV import to correct your usernames by exporting a CSV from your Active Directory that includes the usernames and UID's/UPN's of the students then importing that into Frog in one go.

    The problem you have is that you have an inconsistent naming format, and it is not possible to configure your Frogserver for every eventuality.

    Regarding the surname lengths, I have seen many longer than 10 characters, your import settings are probably configured to only take the first 10 characters of the surname - you can change this in your toolkit.

    I can confirm that the auto extractor will NOT change your usernames or create duplicate users. When the import is done it matches the UPN/UID of the child to ones that are already in Frog - other data (such as names / addresses etc) will change if the data in your MIS changes, but usernames never will.

    The only way that duplicate users can be created is if you do an CSV import and do not include the UPN of the pupils, or by adding duplicate pupils into your MIS.

    Hope this helps!

  7. #37
    clareq's Avatar
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    If anyone else can see a use for managing year groups separately, please log onto the frog community and vote for the suggestion I put on there a little while ago. Apparently, so Frog tell me, every other school have all their users on one server, and so there is no need to manage year groups separately!
    Last edited by clareq; 21st February 2011 at 01:06 PM. Reason: spelling

  8. #38
    MicrodigitUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clareq View Post
    If anyone else can see a use for managing year groups separately, please log onto the frog community and vote for the suggestion I put on there a little while ago. Apparently, so Frog tell me, every other school have all their users on one server, and so there is no need to manage year groups separately!
    How would Frog know they haven’t asked anyone!! I had this problem when we got Frog as we split year groups over different servers and it’s such a pain to export to CSV update the year group UNC paths and then re-import. Asked installer at the time and he told me that’s just the way it is…

    I know one other local school with the same problem. Will point them to your Frog community suggestion so we can vote it up.

  9. #39
    MicrodigitUK's Avatar
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    @clareq what is your Ideas name/heading as I cant find it!!!

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    clareq's Avatar
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    It is "Edit student details" but if you search on multi (as in multi server) it is the first returned result. Thanks to those who are voting - it's had 3 since I posted.

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    I considered Frog a while back but was worried about it needing to be hosted in the school. Having a bunch of servers with data split over them seemed weird to me and I couldn't get my head round why it wasn't set up either as a monster server or, better still, a hosted arrangement. that way I don't need hardware, don;t have to worry about updates and I can probably find a system that can cope with small and massive schools alike. The thing I also considered was physical and logical security with additional hardware and data split over several machines in a school. Unless I got the messages wrong at BETT, I felt I needed something more contained.

    And, as for having to faff about with CSV files - forget it - I;d be looking for it all to come from AD!

    Admins in school have enough on their plates without having to export and upload date as well! I liked the systems at BETT which supported full integration with SIMS and CMIS so the school admin staff are completely hands off.

  12. #42

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    Multiple servers? The install is a single server and usernames can be automatically created via your MIS connection. It depends what your username set up is in your school. We did ours initially via the MIS import and then used CSVs files to just overwrite the data with the correct usernames. You only do that once and I simply amend new pupils who are imported from our MIS into FROG with the appropriate username. It takes very little time and depending your setup, it may take no extra time at all.

  13. #43
    clareq's Avatar
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    Yes, frog is a single server, but with 2000 students, with user areas split over 3 servers too many user names are incorrect for us to be able to keep on top of, coupled with everything else that has to be kept on top of! Surely a service like a VLE should fit in with what we have and works, not force us to alter our systems so we can use a VLE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clareq View Post
    Yes, frog is a single server, but with 2000 students, with user areas split over 3 servers too many user names are incorrect for us to be able to keep on top of, coupled with everything else that has to be kept on top of! Surely a service like a VLE should fit in with what we have and works, not force us to alter our systems so we can use a VLE?
    When you say that you have users split over three servers, do you mean that you have 3 domains? Or one domain, but with the storage for their "Home Drives" spread over three servers? You shouldn't have to alter your system in order to get Frog to work, as long as you can tell it what the usernames are and they are all on the same logical domain.

    Frog can only authenticate with one domain for username and password authentication, but can look at any server in the same domain for access to their files. You mentioned that you don't have a standard naming convention for usernames and locations. If this is the case, how do you create your users every year? If you can do an export from AD that contains the users path to the home drive that you want to use in Frog and their UPN number (as in your MIS system) and usernames then you could use one CSV import to correct all the data in about 5 minutes flat.

    You would only have to do this once a year when your new users started.

    If I have understood your setup correctly :P

  15. #45
    MicrodigitUK's Avatar
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    I think what clareq is referring to is storage for their "Home Drives" spread over three servers. This is common practise especially in a RM CC3/CC4 network. The Home drives are normally split down into year group for server load balancing. So Server1: Year 7, 8 and staff. Server2: Year 9, 10 and 11. Server3: Year 12 and 13.

    I strongly agree with clareq that this functionality is sadly lacking in Frog user import and the only workaround is a CSV or manually change each user that comes to you.

    I have a third party AD SIMS import tool that has this functionality and creates the users "Home Drives" in Active Directory on the correct server (when the student starts) based on year group. This like Frog is an overnight import from SIMS. So why canít Frog be a bit more flexible to soot a common school scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by frogdude View Post
    If you can do an export from AD that contains the users path to the home drive that you want to use in Frog and their UPN number (as in your MIS system) and usernames then you could use one CSV import to correct all the data in about 5 minutes flat.

    You would only have to do this once a year when your new users started.
    You do have to do it a lot more than once a year. What about starters during the academic year? That 5 minutes flat than starts to add up. Also how often do Network admins get passed the information that you have a new starter/s. I can tell you almost never.....

    Frog automatic user imports from SIMS start to look a little less automatic!!
    Last edited by MicrodigitUK; 22nd February 2011 at 08:09 PM.

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