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Virtual Learning Platforms Thread, Bloody Frog! We own the server & the warrany expired!??! in Technical; ...
  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazzy2501 View Post
    Something that wasn't passed onto me during the purchase of our Frog VLE (3.5 years ago) is that the server provided was in fact our property and were are responsible for it's upkeep! When we purchased Frog we were told that the only on going cost was £3800 /pa for support. Well, if buying a new £5000 server every 5 years (if you purchase additional warranty from Dell) and paying frog to migrate it isn't an 'On going' cost what is?!

    Urrrgh! I guess we don't have to renew the server but I don't want to run an important server outside of it's warranty!

    OK I thought, can we virtualise the frog server? FROG: Yes it'll cost £5000 (the price of a new frog server!) What a rip!

    Anyone P2V'd a frog server (just can't think of a way to virtualise the ILO)
    I had exactly the same experience I had always assumed the price we paid which is thousands per year covered both software and hardware support. During install they market the server as an appliance gave us no input with regards to spec or warranty, now two years later they turn around and go by the way you need to pay x for a warranty renewal from Dell and pay x for a memory upgrade. Ohh and no we don't support a virtual it virtualised.

  2. #17

    localzuk's Avatar
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    I don't get the "we don't support virtualised" thing. What difference does it make to them?

    I had some info off them for disaster recovery procedure last week and they indicated that with FrogOS they will be supporting virtual environments.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I don't get the "we don't support virtualised" thing. What difference does it make to them?

    I had some info off them for disaster recovery procedure last week and they indicated that with FrogOS they will be supporting virtual environments.
    I think they will support frogos virtualised but not frog3 or the combo of both.

  4. #19
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    FrogOS is a "free" upgrade if you already have a Frog3 server! BUTTT this free upgrade will require a server RAM upgrade and may run crappy this will also drive your support costs up a further £2500 plus £2 per pupil!

    Bargain it's free and I can't afford it.

  5. #20

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazzy2501 View Post
    FrogOS is a "free" upgrade if you already have a Frog3 server! BUTTT this free upgrade will require a server RAM upgrade and may run crappy this will also drive your support costs up a further £2500 plus £2 per pupil!

    Bargain it's free and I can't afford it.
    It doesn't put your support costs up. It reduces them according to the letter I've got. Ie. it replaces the old support charge with the new pricing scheme.

  6. Thanks to localzuk from:

    chazzy2501 (3rd July 2013)

  7. #21
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    if I don't hit a cap then the support will be only £100 more.... Phew!

  8. #22
    speckytecky's Avatar
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    We got quotes to extend (by 3 years) on our Dell Curriculum Server. Shopping round saved us a heap.

  9. #23
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    Frog sounds rip off... We use moodle, vitalized on a VMwear server.

  10. #24
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    Think you need to see what frog offers before you say that

    Currently have moodle here and there are a large amount of options provided with Frog which to be frank would take any moodle expert years to setup and design. And by that time Frog would have developed further, still agree its very expensive but compared to what other VLEs are offering Frog is still one of the best. Staff here have begun to feel angry at the clunky feel of moodle and the basic feeling of it, which is why they have looked else where for cheap options e.g. RealSmart.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    Think you need to see what frog offers before you say that

    Currently have moodle here and there are a large amount of options provided with Frog which to be frank would take any moodle expert years to setup and design. And by that time Frog would have developed further, still agree its very expensive but compared to what other VLEs are offering Frog is still one of the best. Staff here have begun to feel angry at the clunky feel of moodle and the basic feeling of it, which is why they have looked else where for cheap options e.g. RealSmart.
    Just out of interest what features have you found people prefer over Moodle?

  12. #26
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    Biggest popular one was secure gateway, we had this setup and students/staff loved it.

    Also the ability to improve and edit their own sites, staff here utterly hate the way moodle is on the basic level "too clunky" are their words. I showed staff how to drag/drop and setup their sites in frog and they were shocked at how easy it was. You have to play with frog yourself to fully understand the difference, I didn't believe it till the school had got frog and even then still took me a few months.

  13. #27

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    Coming a little late to this one but some weeks ago I received an email from James Shackley @ Frogtrade stating they do support Frog in virtual environments. The platform he mentioned specifically to me was VMWare vSphere - fine by me as we have a vCenter / vSphere setup with ESXi hosts - but there was no mention of any support or migration fees to get our current host converted into a VM if we wanted to explore that option and the inference was we could migrate it ourselves (we also sourced and installed our own memory upgrade to 16Gb to support FrogOS).

    I am a bit concerned at the inference there could be / are additional costs later as we have specifically been asking them about hidden or additional fees or terms, particularly with the migration to FrogOS coming up, and nothing like this has been mentioned at all - just the ongoing annual £2.5k + £2/student subscription figure.

  14. #28

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    Hi Jim!

    Apologies for the delay in a reply to this post, I had somewhat of a family emergency that meant I was away unexpectedly - however I'm back now and wanted to drop a reply to you.

    In terms of the support for VM, hopefully this gives a little clarity over the current situation:

    We are currently working on projects to be able to offer visualization of FrogOS to customers. Please be aware that this is for FrogOS only and that we are yet to be in a position to commit to customers running Frog 3.0 being able to continue with Frog 3.0 running on the physical server and FrogOS on a VM.
    The VM environments we support are limited to VMWare - FrogOS is currently supported on VMWare ESXi 4.1 U3 and later. Work is being conducted to ratify installation and support on the latest version of Microsoft's Hyper-V platform.
    Regression and performance testing is scheduled to start later this year, with a target for beta delivery after September 2013.

    While you stay on your current hardware, there's no additional costs for taking FrogOS and it's entirely optional, the new license fee covering your managed service is the £2,500 + £2 per pupil (with upper and lower caps) - so nothing changes there from what I've mentioned in the past.

    Should VM become a possibility and be desirable to you, if work is required at our end to make this happen then it is likely there would be a charge for this. However, as you can see from the above we are too early in the process to have this nailed down yet - the thing I'd like to make clear is that a move away from your current hardware (especially now you've upgraded the RAM) will not be forced on you, this would be entirely your choice if you felt the benefits (and indeed any cost) were acceptable.

    Thanks a lot - I'm always more than happy to discuss further and can always put you in touch directly with the guys that are looking at VM here if you wanted a little more info regarding the nuts and bolts.

    All the best,
    James Shackley
    Head of Services - Frogtrade Ltd

  15. #29

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    Thanks for the clarifications on the VM situation James

    Given the Frog platform is essentially based on widely-used open source products running in a Linux environment, there should be no reason why either v3 or OS won't work with any hypervisor that supports linux VMs so it will be interesting to see the results of your testing as it progresses.

  16. #30

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    Does it cost a basic £5000 and then on top nearly £4k a year to have the Frog system? Thanks! Comparing VLE costs at the moment!

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