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Thin Client and Virtual Machines Thread, Thin client instead of CC3 in Technical; We're primarily running CC3, with CC4 promising full thin-client integration (more than CC3 with Client Connect) I'm wondering whether it ...
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    u8dmtm's Avatar
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    Thin client instead of CC3

    We're primarily running CC3, with CC4 promising full thin-client integration (more than CC3 with Client Connect) I'm wondering whether it would be better to NOT upgrade to CC4 and go down a completely different route instead, such as all (or mostly) thin-client running either 2003 Terminal Services or Citrix.

    Can anyone provide some idea of what would be involved in moving wholesale from thick-client CC3 to a thin-client world without a CC3 equivalent layer?

    We've never used thin-client before but it seems like a consideration we should make given the reduced workstation costs and ability to log in from home.

    Thanks

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    wesleyw's Avatar
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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    Having moved away from CC3 back in 2006 I am now looking at trialling Thin Client (based on Terminal Services and Citrix at the server end) To be honest moving away from CC3 isn't hard afterall CC3 is just another layer on top of a basic Widnows Environment when it comes to Thin Client however you'll need to look at the cost of the extra application servers you'll need plus Terminal Services CALs, Citrix Presentation Licenses and whatever Thin Client software you need on each client if you're keeping your existing computers then you won't have to worry about buying new thin clients units but the cost of the thin client license can look quite hefty to start with I'm currently looking to trial 60 not with say a price of £10.50 for TS Cals and £124 for Advanced - £144 for Enterprise Citrix presentation licenses and the servers on top this comes to around £16k-£17k however £2.5k is the setting up of said system by a qualified vendor I worked out you could do a very nice setup of say 500 units for about £100k this includes servers et cetera (The servers could cope with around 1000 clients so I tend to over spec ) It does work out much cheaper and of course controlling them is very easy. The citrix licenses work on concurrent connections so you needn't worry about using them from home or in the school I may be moving this to nearly 80% coverage within the next two years however I do want to keep a couple of fat clients for heavy processor based tasks video manipulation for one I have heard that there is some nice editting software designed specifically for Terminal Services based work so that may not be needed either! I've been in discussions with Precedence Technologies recommended to me by someone on this site sorry guys I can't remember who. They have been happy giving me references to talk to about thin clients in schools so I'll be following them up and if my budget goes to it I'll be buying into it this year very soon.



    Wes

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    Ric_'s Avatar
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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    @wesleyw: Citrix licenses are a touch less than that (by about £10 each but it depends on volume). Also there is no way you will get 1000 clients on one server... unless each client is running some text-based app! You want to work to approx. 30 clients per server to take into account IE and flash.

    I will be writing a document on thin client implementation and posting it soon.

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    wesleyw's Avatar
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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    Sorry Ric_ but i didn't say 1000 Clients to a server if you loo carefully at my awful grammar I state "do a very nice setup of say 500 units for about £100k this includes servers et cetera (The servers could cope with around 1000 clients so I tend to over spec" I didn't mean a I meant in total.

    Our Citrix Presentation licenses were priced at £144 for enterprise you say they should be about £10?

    Wes

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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    Quote Originally Posted by wesleyw
    Our Citrix Presentation licenses were priced at £144 for enterprise you say they should be about £10?
    A thread full of misunderstandings! I think he meant that they are around £10 less than you have been quoted - i.e. £134. They actually have them on Civica for £121.55 currently, and they tend to be dear compared to others. I think I got mine from Qual (tho it was a while ago and I can;t remember how much they were).

    Andy

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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    Also, the Citrix licenses are re-usable, you only need the number of concurrent connections. TSCals are not re-usable, you'll need TSCals for every device or user (whichever is cheapest). Also need Server cals and external connector license for remote access. TSCals are about £11.50ea.
    I'm currently looking to trial 60 not with say a price of £10.50 for TS Cals and £124 for Advanced - £144 for Enterprise Citrix presentation licenses and the servers on top this comes to around £16k-£17k
    with LTSP you only need the servers !

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    wesleyw's Avatar
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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    Sadly our school uses too much windows software to be able to use LTSP. I think there have been some changes to the external connector license as well.




    Wes

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    Ric_'s Avatar
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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    @wesleyw: Sorry for the misunderstanding. ECLs are approx. £1000 each (although there is a loop hole if you have a MS Schools Agreement).

    It would be great not to have to worry about all these complicated licensing schemes but, sadly, we do. Oh for LTSP.

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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    What about a mix of LTSP and Citrix? buy a minimal amount of Citrix servers/licenses for apps that have no viable linux alternative and run published ICA sessions from LTSP.

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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    £1000 each for external connector licenses, we'd need one for every user outside?
    Wes

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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd
    What about a mix of LTSP and Citrix? buy a minimal amount of Citrix servers/licenses for apps that have no viable linux alternative and run published ICA sessions from LTSP.
    Given that I still have to convince the school to move to StarOffice/OpenOffice/whatever, I think that finding replacements for the other billion products may be tricky and we would end up requiring a similar number of Citrix licenses to what we currently have (200).

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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    £1000 each for external connector licenses, we'd need one for every user outside?
    Wes
    Its on a per server basis for people that connect from outside. If you need 60 people connecting from outside (edit: concurrent connections) and you base on 30users/server then you need 2 external connector licenses.

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    wesleyw's Avatar
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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    Oh right that seems more reasonable to me!

    Wes

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    Re: Thin client instead of CC3

    Or you could have a look at the Sun Global Desktop stuff that the Cutter Project sell - I know a school here (Northampton) is going through a transition from RM to SGD at the moment - so that will be interesting - supposedly its a lot cheaper than Citrix with the same functionality - but I haven't seen detailed figures.

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