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Thin Client and Virtual Machines Thread, N-Computing: Anyone using? in Technical; Can anyone tell me if there is any hardware acceleration for flash 10.1, video or 3D in MPS2010? If nobody ...
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    Can anyone tell me if there is any hardware acceleration for flash 10.1, video or 3D in MPS2010? If nobody knows can anyone test a system with a mainstream graphics card or better? CPU power is still going to be the limiting factor for delivering multimedia on multiseat systems until they get hardware acceleration working.

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    Hi BHMS, these features are disabled by default, so we just switched on the embedded hardware acceleration features of the graphics cards when testing.

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    A thought to share....

    ...all these new technologies based on multiple clusters of PC + various bits of hardware...

    Maybe one day someone will come up with a technology where you just have one PC supporting dozens of users - and be able to lock the PC far away from the kids, and
    not be constrained by cable lengths, and use nice thin cable that can be embedded in walls and just use generic Microsoft products - and not be constrained to one vendors technology.... and supposing such a technology could operate over WANs and be aplicable for home users, and support all sorts of peripherals, and centralise all the virus, content, update management to one server (ooop I mean PC)....

    ..and be greener in terms of total power consumption...

    Oh well, one can dream.....maybe one day!

  4. Thanks to nut-ed from:

    Butuz (26th March 2010)

  5. #49

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Not sure what you're getting at @nut-ed? Terminal Services, Citrix, nComputing, VDI and Wyse Zero Clients all fit this description to a greater or lesser extent. ATM Wyse Zero Clients look the most promissing/interesting but I'm yet to get my hands on some hard and fast pricing and performance details.

    For me, so far, Clustered Multiseat Computing has struck the best balance between price, performance and systems management which is why I'm actively heading down this route.

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    So the ultimate (reasonably cost effective) solution with multipoint server 2010 would be to whack 2 of these into a system:

    PowerColor jumps on the Eyefinity bandwagon, breaks off a wheel -- Engadget

    Connect up monitors using mini-display port adaptors and you have full hardware acceleration for up to 10 workstations for about £300-£350 extra assuming your systems have 2 PCI-E x16 slots and a sufficient power supply. That seems fantastic value for money, especially for multimedia intensive systems. Just need to wait for those graphics cards to filter into retail as they have only just been released.

  7. 2 Thanks to BHMS:

    verygreenpc (26th March 2010), waldronm2000 (26th March 2010)

  8. #51

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    Could work. I'll fire to our operations dept. When we tested usb over VGA (so GreenHive not populated by multiple graphics cards) there was significant screen flicker; this sort of card may sort it....

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    BHMS (26th March 2010), waldronm2000 (26th March 2010)

  10. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Not sure what you're getting at @nut-ed? Terminal Services, Citrix, nComputing, VDI and Wyse Zero Clients all fit this description to a greater or lesser extent. ATM Wyse Zero Clients look the most promissing/interesting but I'm yet to get my hands on some hard and fast pricing and performance details.

    For me, so far, Clustered Multiseat Computing has struck the best balance between price, performance and systems management which is why I'm actively heading down this route.
    The whole ballpark could well change when Microsoft's RemoteFX product emerges....

    RDP has so many advantages over other methods, the one problem it does have is multimedia performance.

    (I've not done the maths - but I don't think cost is a factor "one server and bunch of TCs" should be about the same as "bunch of PCs + bunch of graphic cards +bunch of USB hubs - at the end of the day, one running one operating system and having all applications on a single server has got to be more efficient in terms of hardware than multiple PCs - even if you were able to 100% maximise each PC's hardware)

    RemoteFX is billed as being able to solve the multimedia issue, whether is does or not remains to be seen....

    Microsoft announces "RemoteFX," the Calista-based Hyper-V-requiring PC-over-IP competitor. Here's our full analysis. - Brian Madden - BrianMadden.com

    What is pretty certain, with all these new technologies emerging there will be winners and losers - and no one wants to be stuck with a loser. Microsoft seem to normally end up on the winning side..!

  11. 3 Thanks to nut-ed:

    BHMS (26th March 2010), tmcd35 (26th March 2010), waldronm2000 (26th March 2010)

  12. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by nut-ed View Post
    A thought to share....

    ...all these new technologies based on multiple clusters of PC + various bits of hardware...

    Maybe one day someone will come up with a technology where you just have one PC supporting dozens of users - and be able to lock the PC far away from the kids, and
    not be constrained by cable lengths, and use nice thin cable that can be embedded in walls and just use generic Microsoft products - and not be constrained to one vendors technology.... and supposing such a technology could operate over WANs and be aplicable for home users, and support all sorts of peripherals, and centralise all the virus, content, update management to one server (ooop I mean PC)....

    ..and be greener in terms of total power consumption...

    Oh well, one can dream.....maybe one day!
    Haha!!! I love the dry humour.

    I agree with you thats why I run just Windows 2003 Terminal Server's here. Virtualised terminal severs + a decent network inftrastucture + zero clients like Axel M80f = WIN!

    I've done all the calculations and it is much cheaper to buy outright, much cheaper to run based on energy usage, much cheaper in terms of support and maintenance and much cheaper in terms of a replacement/upgrade strategy.

    Butuz

  13. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by nut-ed View Post
    The whole ballpark could well change when Microsoft's RemoteFX product emerges....


    RemoteFX is billed as being able to solve the multimedia issue, whether is does or not remains to be seen....

    Microsoft announces "RemoteFX," the Calista-based Hyper-V-requiring PC-over-IP competitor. Here's our full analysis. - Brian Madden - BrianMadden.com
    I heard about this a while back and then it sort 'dropped off my radar'. Being a VDI solutions a couple of initial thoughts worry me.

    1) The cost of a small scale installation, say 30 machines. Let's face it if you're going down the VDI route you're looking at blade servers. And the initial outlay ain't cheap. Once suites 2 and 3 are online the price looks very inviting, but 1 x 30 PC suite. I'm not yet convinced (although I really want to be).

    2) VECD lincencing. I never thought MS could make OS licencing any more complex than it already was then along comes VECD and Software Assurance and I've got a brain anuism (sp?). Still, if I can clear the wood for the trees there may be an affordable product there?

    In my mind an ideal solution would be Wyse Zero clients connecting to a fast Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (maybe utilising RemoteFX?) and then have the applications served to the Virtual Desktops by App-V. It's a nice dream with too meny ££££'s for this school to reasonably afford I think.

    What is pretty certain, with all these new technologies emerging there will be winners and losers - and no one wants to be stuck with a loser. Microsoft seem to normally end up on the winning side..!
    Aye, but then they have the huge lawyer fees that go with alway bullying themselves into the winning side. Still if it helps the EU out of recession...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    I heard about this a while back and then it sort 'dropped off my radar'. Being a VDI solutions a couple of initial thoughts worry me.

    1) The cost of a small scale installation, say 30 machines. Let's face it if you're going down the VDI route you're looking at blade servers. And the initial outlay ain't cheap. Once suites 2 and 3 are online the price looks very inviting, but 1 x 30 PC suite. I'm not yet convinced (although I really want to be).

    2) VECD lincencing. I never thought MS could make OS licencing any more complex than it already was then along comes VECD and Software Assurance and I've got a brain anuism (sp?). Still, if I can clear the wood for the trees there may be an affordable product there?

    In my mind an ideal solution would be Wyse Zero clients connecting to a fast Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (maybe utilising RemoteFX?) and then have the applications served to the Virtual Desktops by App-V. It's a nice dream with too meny ££££'s for this school to reasonably afford I think.



    Aye, but then they have the huge lawyer fees that go with alway bullying themselves into the winning side. Still if it helps the EU out of recession...
    I'm in exactly the same position in my middle school. We only have 1 suite of 35 machines, the initial outlay for a VDI solution is far more than the multipoint solution at this current point. If I had a lot more workstations then that would be a different story. Maybe in few more years.

    Multimedia performance on VDI just isn't adequate I'm sure you will agree. RemoteFX isn't going to be out till mid-late this year and I need to upgrade the schools suite asap. The technology looks really promising but you also need to think that RemoteFX is going to need a new generation of servers. They are going to need to allow you to install large numbers of graphics cards with considerable extra power and heat requirements. Just like your current servers your going to need to have a decent amount of processing headroom on the graphical side or its back to square one skipping video frames. Another advantage is you can probably get away with a cheaper CPU setup as a large load is removed.
    Last edited by BHMS; 26th March 2010 at 03:31 PM.

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    Hi Guys I couldn't agree more. We've been asked to spec a distributed network for 250 users over 20 sites using a mixture of desktop virtualisation at a server level and GreenHive with either NC, LG or MS at the desktop. Aside from having to take advice on VECD licensing, we actually have to try and build this Frankenstein and show them and then show them the price. It will definitely be a sit down moment...

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    ...I read RemoteFX as being applicible to VDI AND regular old terminal services
    (W2008r2).

    VDI is overly complicated and expensive, does anyone actually use it ? - but TSE isn't expensive or resource hungry

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    The article stresses you need Hyper-V so that would mean VDI and not Terminal Services. My gut instinct - in an ideal world - would be everyone having their own OS to log on to, even if they are all running on the same server, would be better than everyone login into the same OS. If an app crashes it potentially only brings down 1 user not 30/60/100/whatever.

    I've recently been made aware of a product called 'Fiddlehead' that is essentially Multipoint/nComp/SoftXpand but using proper virtual desktops. But again the MS licensing costs make a good idea prohibitive.

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    Terry,

    I nearly bought myFiddlehead with a group of investors. In the end we decided against for various reasons. It's immense how deep you are into Multiseating. One day you'll need a standalone PC or a GreenHive for x,y,z and I'll be there!

  19. Thanks to verygreenpc from:

    tmcd35 (26th March 2010)

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    Fiddlehead vs all the rest

    Someone mentioned Fiddlehead. I have spent the last 10 years trying to get thin clients to work in schools and Fiddlehead is the only one that really works like a real PC. Browsing the internet is one thing that works OK with thin clients, Microsoft Office or other low multimedia content applications are in a similar boat. But when it comes to the multitude of weird, multimedia intense, one-off school applications we have, nComputing, MultiPoint, softXpand, Wyse, Citrix, TS, etc. just don't work! Fiddlehead does. The REAL problem for us is that each and every one of them have one installation of the operating system and thus one instance of the application. Although multimedia runs substantially better on softXpand than anything else, and the DisplayLink stuff as you see with the U series nComputing and the T100 HP thin clients don't allow real 3D multimedia even though they are easy to set up, none of them can launch a 2nd instance of MovieMaker, or CCC, or Read180, or Compass, or Successmaker (correct me if some of them are running now).

    Regarding FH licensing, any school that uses SA or VECD can use the Vista (and now Windows 7) virtualization brief and the price is next to nothing. Fiddlehead has all of the green, sustainable "stuff" that all of the others have, AND it is JUST LIKE A REGULAR PC. The new DisplayPort PC's don't even require extra video cards. It is not designed, nor priced (I would guess) to compete with thin clients, or multiSeat solutions. It probably shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath with them. It is just like a regular PC.

    Regarding FH getting bought...since we are a pretty good size site in the NE, I can't tell you how many companies have contacted us asking about our experience. They claim they are doing due diligence process. I can tell you that none of them are small.

  21. Thanks to vermonttechie from:

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