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Thin Client and Virtual Machines Thread, N-Computing: Anyone using? in Technical; Originally Posted by Nick_Parker Slightly off-topic... is there anyway you can use the L-Series as normal RDP thin clients? Nope ...
  1. #31

    plexer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_Parker View Post
    Slightly off-topic... is there anyway you can use the L-Series as normal RDP thin clients?
    Nope because they communicate using their own UXP protocol.

    http://www.ncomputing.com/Portals/0/...ualization.pdf

    Ben

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by plexer View Post
    Nope because they communicate using their own UXP protocol.

    http://www.ncomputing.com/Portals/0/...ualization.pdf

    Ben
    Bother :P
    I really don't like the ncomputing software, always complaining about incompatible windows updates yadda yadda...

    Thanks Plexer

  3. #33

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    The u-170 being usb and compatible with multipoint server shouldn't have such a limitation then.

    Ben

  4. #34
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    I got the following reply back from Microsoft regarding licensing for nComputing:


    Thank you for inquiring about Windows XP license rights for NComputing’s vSpace software solutions.

    This e-mail confirms that for a limited time only, Microsoft has granted to NComputing certain limited rights to give its end user customers the ability to use NComputing vSpace software with Microsoft Windows XP in multi-user environments, so long as certain requirements are met by such end user customers. These requirements include the following:

    · The NComputing vSpace software must have been purchased after November 16, 2009.

    · The end user customer must have licensed the appropriate number of Windows Server operating system and associated Client Access Licenses (“CALs”) for simultaneous access by multiple users to the licensed computer.

    · If the appropriate Windows Server operating license(s) and CALs have been obtained, then such customer may install and run the NComputing vSpace Software on a separately licensed Windows XP client operating system in lieu of the Windows Server operating system.

    · The Windows Server operating system software or the Windows XP client operating system software may be used, but not both.

    To work with NComputing products today, you will need to license and use Windows Server 2003 R2 or Windows Server 2008. You will need to acquire Windows Server 2008 CALs and Remote Desktop Services (RDS) CALs for each station including the host computer if you are using the host computer as a station. In the future, it is possible you may be able to license and use Windows Server 2008 R2 and Windows MultiPoint Server 2010 to work with NComputing products.



    While Microsoft has granted these limited rights for use of the Windows XP client operating system configuration under these specific circumstances, all support for NComputing’s vSpace software running on Windows XP is solely provided by NComputing.

    Microsoft neither promotes nor provides any support for NComputing vSpace Software or for the Windows XP client operating system in this configuration. Windows XP was not designed for multiple users to run multiple sessions. Microsoft’s recommended configuration is the Windows Server product for which you are licensed.

    For any questions or issues you may have relating to the NComputing vSpace software and its use with the Windows XP client operating system, please seek support from NComputing at: NComputing Tech Support

    There are no rights granted by Microsoft or NComputing to allow multiple simultaneous users to access and use the operating system software for Windows Vista, Windows 7, or any other Microsoft client operating system.

  5. 2 Thanks to waldronm2000:

    dhicks (3rd March 2010), tmcd35 (3rd March 2010)

  6. #35

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    So that's (assuming you build your own host box) - 1xOEM copy of Windows XP @ approx. £100. 1xVL Copy of Win Server @ approx £55. and £5ish per CAL.

    So for a 5 user system you are looking at £170 in MS Software licensing before you buy the nComputing kit...

    EDIT: If you buy a OEM PC with Windows XP included then thats £70 for 5 users to get started. Also I forgot to work out the cost of the VL WinXP Upgrade another £30 or so that you'll need if you want to use your VL XP image.
    Last edited by tmcd35; 3rd March 2010 at 03:20 PM.

  7. #36
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    I just discovered that the vSpace software for the L-Series for Server 2008 doesn't support 64bit, only 32bit. I have a server set aside just for this with 8GB RAM and now the other 4GB are going to go to waste

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    grass is always greener...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_Parker View Post
    One of the issues I've had with the nComputing stuff is the software doesn't work if you have certain updates installed, I've had to go through uninstall security updates one-by-one until I found the problem one and then bugger me if Windows Update didn't automatically install it the next day!
    Here are some interesting comments from people who have used both systems (Ncomputing + HP thin clients.....)

    Ncomputing Vs Hp thin clients > NComputing User Forums > NComputing


    I guess the point about Windows updates 'breaking' the Ncomputing software is related to the fact that Microsoft don't officially recognise Ncomputing as a partner - (ref. Microsoft's letter), so Ncomputing don't get official MS support or advance copies to test etc - rather they have to reverse engineer once updates are released, so will always be a step behind, so automatic Windows updates will be problematic...

    We have to assume Microsoft's Multipoint won't suffer same way...!

    I read today Wyse are releasing a US$99 Multipoint terminal, that figure is probably less than the profit margin they make on their high end models !

    Does anyone know what the max length for the USB connection is...?

  9. #38
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    I think it's 5m

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    Quote Originally Posted by nut-ed View Post
    Here are some interesting comments from people who have used both systems (Ncomputing + HP thin clients.....)

    Ncomputing Vs Hp thin clients > NComputing User Forums > NComputing
    This link is a little invalid (if that's the right word). It is comparing nComputings Multiseat solution with HP's Terminal Services solution. It is not comparing nComputing with HP's T100 Multiseat solution or MS Multipoint Server.

    So no, these people have not used both systems so to speak.

    We have to assume Microsoft's Multipoint won't suffer same way...!
    When I tested Multipoint Server the first thing I did was run Windows Update. It downloaded and installed Windows 2008R2 updates. There were zero problems with Windows Update and I was testing one of the last release candidates which was downloading updates for the current released version of 2008R2.

    I don't do Windows Updates on my nComputing setup because I don't want to faff about fixing it when it breaks.

    I read today Wyse are releasing a US$99 Multipoint terminal, that figure is probably less than the profit margin they make on their high end models !
    Not a bad price. Roughly in line with nComputing U-170 I think. The HP T-100 comes in at arounf £130ish. But that does include the Mutlipoint CAL. Does the Wyse include the CAL at that price?


    Does anyone know what the max length for the USB connection is...?
    Yes it is 5m. Although you can extend that with powered extenders or hubs. not sure what the max total length including powered hubs is though.

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    NComputing U-170 is £99 even though their advertised $ price is $99 just wondering if it is cheaper to do the windows multipoint server even when I might only be making 1 computer into 2?

    Ben

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    Ben, is there a reason for not just putting a second computer there or using traditional Terminal Services?

    I'm not convinced of the cost savings of any solution on a 2:1 ratio.

    That said it probably depends on what OS you want to use and whether you have that already. If you want XP and have the OEM/VL license already then there isn't any difference in cost between Multipoint + CALs and Server08 std + CALs. The nComputing devices are cheaper though - just don't update the OS

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    [QUOTE=tmcd35;471142]This link is a little invalid (if that's the right word). It is comparing nComputings Multiseat solution with HP's Terminal Services solution. It is not comparing nComputing with HP's T100 Multiseat solution or MS Multipoint Server.

    So no, these people have not used both systems so to speak.

    QUOTE]

    Fair Point ! but no one's actually seen Multipoint in action yet, and the assumption seems to be Ncomputing over USB is similar to what Multipoint will provide (?) ....and those users found Ncomputer lacking when compared with today's thin clients...

    Multipoint may be a great solution, it will be very interesting to compare this with Terminal Services when it becomes available, we all know the limitations of Terminal Services/Citrix, but it does provide a very workable solution for most cases and it is robust and widely supported- Multipoint is still an unknown entity.

    The first version of terminal services (W2000) would also have looked great on paper, but in reality it was a little ropey.

    It will be interesting to see how Microsoft position Multipoint v. W2008, if its a lot cheaper they may de-function it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by nut-ed View Post
    Fair Point ! but no one's actually seen Multipoint in action yet, and the assumption seems to be Ncomputing over USB is similar to what Multipoint will provide (?) ....and those users found Ncomputer lacking when compared with today's thin clients...
    Multipoint Server Performance Testing – Video School Network Manager

    I'll be updating my blog as the system is implemented and reporting on how well it works in the real world in due course.


    It will be interesting to see how Microsoft position Multipoint v. W2008, if its a lot cheaper they may de-function it...
    They are the same price, standard + CALs.

  15. Thanks to tmcd35 from:

    dhicks (3rd March 2010)

  16. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Ben, is there a reason for not just putting a second computer there or using traditional Terminal Services?

    I'm not convinced of the cost savings of any solution on a 2:1 ratio.

    That said it probably depends on what OS you want to use and whether you have that already. If you want XP and have the OEM/VL license already then there isn't any difference in cost between Multipoint + CALs and Server08 std + CALs. The nComputing devices are cheaper though - just don't update the OS
    This particular usage is our reception desk where there isn't enough space for a second computer however I can wall mount a tft and use the usb u-170 to give them 2 computers.

    Ben

  17. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_Parker View Post
    I just discovered that the vSpace software for the L-Series for Server 2008 doesn't support 64bit, only 32bit. I have a server set aside just for this with 8GB RAM and now the other 4GB are going to go to waste
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_Parker View Post
    Bother :P
    I really don't like the ncomputing software, always complaining about incompatible windows updates yadda yadda...

    Thanks Plexer
    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    I thought you'd deployed nComputing on Windows There solution is primarliy based around their vSpace software - vSpace Desktop Virtualization and Virtual Computing Software - NComputing - which MS are apparantly happy with you using with Window Server and TS-Cals.

    Only their U-Series (as far as I know) is compatible with Mutlipoint Server.

    nComputing, HP and Wyse are all partnering Microsoft with the launch of Multipoint Server. Although you don't actually need any third party hardware to use Multipoint Server - A standard PC with enough VGA connectors and USB hubs is all you really need.
    NComputing are writing drivers for the X and L series to make them multipoint capable and these should be available in May which makes this solution look good.

    Ben

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