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Thin Client and Virtual Machines Thread, VM's where to start in Technical; Not usually an M$ advocate, and I am a VCP (vmware) but I wouldn't count M$ out of this fight ...
  1. #16

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Not usually an M$ advocate, and I am a VCP (vmware) but I wouldn't count M$ out of this fight so quickly.

    One of the questions the you should ask before settling on a technology, be it VMWare, Xen or Hyper-V, is what type of servers and desktops are you currently supporting and are likely to support in the future?

    We are a Windows only shop here. All our servers and desktops currently run Windows. We have no Macs and although I'm personally a Mac user the school is extremely unlikely to get any in the future. Same with Linux although I dable in Linux/BSD from time to time - it's extremely unlikely we will ever deplopy a *nix server or desktop.

    Where are you going after Windows XP? We are going to Windows 7 - which will necessitate Windows 2008R2 on the server. Windows 2008R2 comes with hyper-v.

    The next version of Hyper-V (due with 2008R2) answers a few of the problems with the existing version. Namely better cluster support and live migration.

    If money is no option - go VMWare. It's definitely the best all round feature wise.

    If you're a Windows only shop - consider Hyper-V alongside the Xen/VMware freebies

    If you're a mixed Linux/Windows shop then you'll probably be comfortable with Xen.

  2. #17
    torledo's Avatar
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    @dhicks

    now that redhat and other distros appear to be moving toward kvm as the default virtualization, are you tempted to switch to that from xen....or would it not be a like for like replacment ?

  3. #18

    matt40k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    care to substantiate that first comment ? seems a bit of a generalisation.
    You mean Xen (non-commerical) performance over VMware or the interesting stuff coming from Sun Micro Systems?

  4. #19

    dhicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    now that redhat and other distros appear to be moving toward kvm as the default virtualization, are you tempted to switch to that from xen....or would it not be a like for like replacment ?
    I figure there's no need to change any time soon. We'll need to look at switching when we either have software that won't work under Xen (and Server 2008 runs fine, so that'll be a while - maybe a decade?) or we buy hardware that won't run CentOS with Xen on it, which given our budget is going to be at least 5 years.

    --
    David Hicks

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    Talking WE LOVE VM'S

    Hi Guys, I'm a newbie to EduGeek so please be gentle...... What a fantastic resource!!!! People who actually share my daily plight!

    Anywho, VM's - I was a bit of a VM virgin until last September when our school invested massively in new server kit and an awesome ESX box.....

    I have been through the mental block of, but hang on a sec 1 box 7 servers, 16 processors, 18GB RAM, how the hell will all this work! I can't touch it...... what will I do with my beloved screw driver now!!!!!!

    The Point.... We are running VM Ware ESX and have 5 virtual servers sitting in our magic box of tricks. We have 2 Physical rack mounted servers.

    Physical 1 - Management Server - Deals with network monitoring - Servers Alive & Switch Monitoring, Backup Devices.
    Physical 2 - ADC server - Primary Domain Server - Connected to SAN and providing primary data shares.

    ESX - BOX 'O' Tricks

    1- Secondary Domain Controller - Helps with Logon, DNS etc. Load Balancing.
    2- Print Server - err well it does exactly what is says on the box, doh! No box.... well you get it!
    3- RIS Server - Our Remote Install Server - Houses all software for distribution either manually or through Group Policy. Also Provides .WIM machine images for boot installation of various OS builds direct to machines. (Really Reliable and super fast - 15 -20mins gets you a full XP machine with 20+ apps installed and ready to go and logon to)
    4- IIS Server - Currently used for Policy Central, Sharepoint Test & VOIP Testing.
    5- SQL Server - CMIS, Booking Pro (Resource & Lettings), Various Other SQL requirements.

    I really do rate the system and setup, the ability to house all of these systems and be able to segregate and alocate resources on the fly is a real plus. Obviously we do regular backups the traditional way to tapes but we also have the ability to take VM snapshots before any changes take place as a "oopps we broke it" recovery plan.... Not that it has ever happened..... we'll move on...

    VM is also a fantastic way of doing development and testing as you can create (as we have) a virtual network which is isolated from the production environment and test to breaking point if you want then just bin it and start again. We have a test bed virtual network of a cloned server and 4 cloned workstations which we can introduce anything from new software, hardware changes or even the latest viruses and "see what happens"! If you told anyone in the past you were going to do that then you would be shot!

    I'm not hear to say VM Ware is the best as I have not really sampled the alternatives on such a grand scale, but if anyone is interested and wants further info or maybe even come and see it then by all means get in touch...

    Sorry for going on a bit.... This is a summary not a full run down....

    Now back to my group policy roll out..... well it worked virtually....

    Thanks
    Last edited by Mids-Tech; 6th April 2009 at 02:16 PM.

  6. #21
    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    Just ballpark figures but how much does VMWare cost you Mids-Tech and what are the costs related to, e.g. licence per server or per hosted OS, CAL's etc?

  7. #22
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    Has no one had a proper virtualization assessment?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    Just ballpark figures but how much does VMWare cost you Mids-Tech and what are the costs related to, e.g. licence per server or per hosted OS, CAL's etc?
    I'll have to delve into the docs, which are a closely guarded secret round here, to compile the full costing but what I can tell you is.... VM Ware recently made there ESXi free so you can do what we have for free (excluding the hardware & Windows licences obviously)!!!! Jaw drop I know! Go to this link Free VMware ESXi: Bare Metal Hypervisor with Live Migration - VMware and you can download it. I think you have to register but there is no bombardment of emails or hassle.

    If you have any old servers or decent spec PC lying around like I did, you can test it out.

    Also this might be worth a look for you. VMware Server Features, Free Virtual Server Consolidation - VMware again another freebie! Seriously though it is easy to get set-up and I would be happy to help in anyway I can.

    I can say that most of our cost went on hardware and them getting a third party to put it together then I got employed and told to make it work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Mids-Tech; 6th April 2009 at 02:17 PM.

  9. #24

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholab View Post
    Has no one had a proper virtualization assessment?
    Whats one of them? Sounds expensive. Standard education IT rules apply - RITM, Common Sense, Jump in and Cross Fingers.

    Seriously, If you take your time, plan, research and correctly spec the servers you'll be fine - do I need to spend 's for a consultant to tell me I've got to plan, research and correctly sped the servers?

  10. Thanks to tmcd35 from:

    Mids-Tech (6th April 2009)

  11. #25

    powdarrmonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholab View Post
    Has no one had a proper virtualization assessment?
    I am a virtualisation assessment.

  12. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Whats one of them? Sounds expensive. Standard education IT rules apply - RITM, Common Sense, Jump in and Cross Fingers.

    Seriously, If you take your time, plan, research and correctly spec the servers you'll be fine - do I need to spend 's for a consultant to tell me I've got to plan, research and correctly sped the servers?
    JUST THINK (CONSULTANT + TIME + HAIR GEL + BMW M5 + JOOP) = LESS RAM & You Get Your Desk Sold At Auction!

    There is good advice out there, don't get taken in. The best thing to do (as we did) get 3 experienced companies to come and quote for the job, explain you want to go virtual and then they will do the work for free... You then get to see what it is you really want.... sorry need! Keep getting told I cannot order what I WANT more of what WE NEED.... spoil sports!
    Last edited by Mids-Tech; 6th April 2009 at 02:16 PM.

  13. #27
    Sandman's Avatar
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    Virtualization for starters.

    Install Ubuntu... install VMWorkstation..... play.....

    well that's how I did it

  14. #28
    Butuz's Avatar
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    Virtualization for starters.

    Find an old P4 Workstation - Install VMWare ESXI 3.5..... play.....

    well that's how I did it

    Butuz

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