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Thin Client and Virtual Machines Thread, VDI / Terminal services in Technical; Originally Posted by AButters This. And also - if you think the Support time required will be significantly lower for ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by AButters View Post
    This. And also - if you think the Support time required will be significantly lower for a VDI/RDP set up then you may find out 3 years down the line that you were mistaken.

    At a risk of making a huge generalisation (im going to do it anyway) people who are REALLY really eager about VDI/RDP often tend to be people who have not actually used it in anger yet? Once you use it in anger over a long period I garuntee you will not be as impressed as you were and you will find yourself dreaming about fat clients in your restless sleep
    Interesting, I take it you have had a bad experience of VDI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AButters View Post
    This. And also - if you think the Support time required will be significantly lower for a VDI/RDP set up then you may find out 3 years down the line that you were mistaken.

    At a risk of making a huge generalisation (im going to do it anyway) people who are REALLY really eager about VDI/RDP often tend to be people who have not actually used it in anger yet? Once you use it in anger over a long period I garuntee you will not be as impressed as you were and you will find yourself dreaming about fat clients in your restless sleep
    You are right, as far as supporting it goes what you are effectively doing is shifting one set of problems for another. Chances are you and your helpdesk already have the general skills required to maintain a traditional thick client environment. However, to be able to support a Citrix based VDI infrastructure takes a lot skill and can provide some extremely frustrating issues to deal with.

    Can't say I'm a real fan of VDI having been involved with it for around 4 years now.

    Fine in a huge office with 8000 clients, ability to work from home, hot desk etc.

    But in a School, really? Seem to recall there was an interesting thread on the subject a couple of years ago where someone 'owned up' to inflicting VDI on their customers because they had more of an interest in the technology than anything else.

  3. Thanks to superatticman from:

    AButters (30th January 2014)

  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by superatticman View Post
    But in a School, really? Seem to recall there was an interesting thread on the subject a couple of years ago where someone 'owned up' to inflicting VDI on their customers because they had more of an interest in the technology than anything else.
    Guilty m'lud.

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    time will tell. almost got the POC installed. so far not difficult just time consuming.

    also noet when I say its a school its an international boarding school so have alot of foreign students (60%) who require remote access over holiday periods etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_O View Post
    Guilty m'lud.
    Just re read the article again. Total respect to you putting your hands up to an apparent error of judgement. Seems it all worked out well in the end

    I guess things have moved on since then. Xendesk 7 and a cutting edge SAN for example provide a near physical PC experience. However the fundamental issues with supporting it all remain. And all this to provide an experience that is close, but not quite up to a decent physical machine.

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    We use VDI here.

    We spent 40k on 3 servers, 1 broker and 2 hyper-v hosts. Each host has 196GB RAM and 800GB of hard drive space on 4 x 200GB server grade SSD's
    We use Dell's vWorkspace as the management interface and hyper-v on server 2008R2 for the VM's

    We have around 100 desktops (very old,7 years +) and around 90 laptops connecting to it wirelessly. It works well for us

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    Quote Originally Posted by superatticman View Post
    Just re read the article again. Total respect to you putting your hands up to an apparent error of judgement. Seems it all worked out well in the end

    I guess things have moved on since then. Xendesk 7 and a cutting edge SAN for example provide a near physical PC experience. However the fundamental issues with supporting it all remain. And all this to provide an experience that is close, but not quite up to a decent physical machine.
    Although we have just replaced the 4 ESXs supporting the VDI with one and (thanks to funscott pointing us in the direction of Atlantis ILIO) are giving it another go. Even if it doesn't work as expected we can still use the kit with little loss of kudos or capital

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    To sum up.

    we are running a POC with the following hardware

    Dell r910 (32 core @2.0ghz) 256gb ram (ex lease 4.5k)

    running 2012 datacenter R2

    within the Hyperv we are running 2012 standard r2 with scvmm 2012 r2 / xendesktop 7.1

    to utilize RAM we will be using atlantis ILIO (not got that far yet dave)

    any storage we need at the moment (VHD / Hyperv file) are hung off a HP eva 4400 (48 x 15k fiber channel disk)

    we can get 3 x r910 for under 20k anticipating a maximum 350 concurrent users between the cluster . we will utilize the POC server but upgrade to 512gb RAM on each server. a fourth box may be purchased if required.

    we are also in the process of deploying 10gb backbone with 1gb to the desktop (procurve 2920s)
    Last edited by funscott; 30th January 2014 at 12:39 PM.

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    Mine is an R720 with 2 x 2Hz 8 core processors 256Gb memory and 12 x146Gb 15K drives RAID 10 (to get the IOPs) running ESXi with Atlantis ILIO (in memory). This will support between 50 and 70 VMs (we only need 50) . We already have VMware VDI licensing for 100 concurrent so no extra cost there. Have tested Atlantis ILIO with 10 VMs and it performs well ie login times reduced from 1 min 30 secs to 45 secs and general usability is quicker. Awaiting kit delivery and final testing.

    Funscott - don't let VDI consume too much of the SAN IOPs (hence the reason for putting in local storage in our solution). Having said that ILIO should reduce the IOPs required by a large amount. We found that shutting down all W7 VMs reduced IOPs on the SAN by 4000 (as reported by the V7000).

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    wont be using the SAN when we have the ILIO software as we are doing a disk-less pooled vdi. you are using your local 10 disks for in place persistent which we dont need. the SAN will only be used for profile storage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by funscott View Post
    wont be using the SAN when we have the ILIO software as we are doing a disk-less pooled vdi. you are using your local 10 disks for in place persistent which we dont need. the SAN will only be used for profile storage.
    What about the replication server for diskless? Atlantis recommend having one to maintain session sate in the event of failure. Still if your users accept this..
    Last edited by Dave_O; 30th January 2014 at 01:19 PM.

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    wont be needing that. back end will be resilient. if a failure does happen user disconnects and forced to start a new session. not the end of the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by funscott View Post
    wont be needing that. back end will be resilient. if a failure does happen user disconnects and forced to start a new session. not the end of the world.
    As long as you (and users) accept that a) all the VMs on that host will need to be re-provisioned each time the host reboots b) The work done in that session will be lost. Having said that how often do your hosts go down? I think the only time ours have gone down is during a power cut or scheduled maintenance.

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    power outage isnt an issue as we had a planned outage which lasted 8 hours and our UPS still had plenty left before we had to think about shutting down any servers. session work lost would be very little as most users save to the san so only open docs would be lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by funscott View Post
    power outage isnt an issue as we had a planned outage which lasted 8 hours and our UPS still had plenty left before we had to think about shutting down any servers. session work lost would be very little as most users save to the san so only open docs would be lost.
    Crikey Moses! That must be one hell of a UPS. Ours last 30 minutes max. We have a Powerchute script that runs after 4 minutes of no power that shuts down all the VMs.
    Last edited by Dave_O; 30th January 2014 at 02:50 PM.

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