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School ICT Policies Thread, Malicious Websites in School Administration; I don't think localzuk has any intention of removing internet access from kids at home. This would be nigh-on impossible....
  1. #31

    webman's Avatar
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    Re: Malicious Websites

    I don't think localzuk has any intention of removing internet access from kids at home. This would be nigh-on impossible.

  2. #32

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Re: Malicious Websites

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff
    In school, I agree, pupils access to the Internet is not a right. Out of school, it's up to the parents NOT the school. Your jurisdiction over the pupils begins and ends at the school gates and when the school bell rings.
    Ah, but the school has jurisdiction over the services it provides in school and as such can use them to find out who did what regarding its teachers outside school. I am not saying anything to do with removing internet access at home - as that is just not possible. In school, kids do not have a right to internet access. It is a privilege that can be taken away at the whim of the management.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pottsey
    “There is no right to internet access, it is not a necessity for schools to provide it.”
    Its not a luxury any more it’s a must have item that we cannot take away. Every child is meant to have online storage space by 2008 or something like that. Every child should be using the Internet at some point in IT lessons and taught about it. In Nottinghamshire every child has to have internet access. Perhaps not 24/7 acess but its got to be there. We all have to have EMBC broadband and access to the learning network as well around here.
    Yes, you do have to use it as part of the national curriculum. However, this only goes as far as for educational purposes. Any other use is simply a privilege and is provided at the discretion of the school.

  3. #33
    alan-d's Avatar
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    Re: Malicious Websites

    @ sqdge - useful contacts can be found here including Yahoo and MySpace.

    @ geoff
    Once the material is up. Then it depends what it depicts and when it was posted. The school has to prove that either:

    The incident described or depicted occurred on school grounds
    or in school hours.

    The material was posted using school equipment.
    What crap is that? Regardless of where or what equipment is used, abuse of another individual or organisation is unacceptable in our society.

    You can preach all you like about an individuals rights and freedom to use the internet, but be prepared to preach from the other side, that is the rights of people to live free of abuse and a right to privacy.

  4. #34

    Geoff's Avatar
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    Re: Malicious Websites

    Ah, but the school has jurisdiction over the services it provides in school and as such can use them to find out who did what regarding its teachers outside school.
    That's fine, there's no problem with you 'investigating' something that happened out of school (other than perhaps it's technically misuse of school resources). If you turn something up you should pass it the information to the police (if it involves something criminal) or to the teachers legal representative (if it doesn't). If it's something minor then simply confronting the parents is sufficient.

    Now, as I keep saying. Given said 'evidence' you simply cannot punish students in school for what they did out of school. That's completely inappropriate. It's up to the judge/magistrate/parent to sort out. Not the school.

    I am not saying anything to do with removing internet access at home - as that is just not possible.
    No, it is possible. It's up to the parents though.

    In school, kids do not have a right to internet access. It is a privilege that can be taken away at the whim of the management.
    Yes.

    Regardless of where or what equipment is used, abuse of another individual or organisation is unacceptable in our society.
    That's right.

    You can preach all you like about an individuals rights and freedom to use the internet, but be prepared to preach from the other side, that is the rights of people to live free of abuse and a right to privacy.
    That's right too.

  5. #35
    alan-d's Avatar
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    Re: Malicious Websites

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff
    Regardless of where or what equipment is used, abuse of another individual or organisation is unacceptable in our society.
    That's right.
    Glad you agree

    So can you elaborate on this remark?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff
    The school has to prove that either:
    [list][*]The incident described or depicted occurred on school grounds[*]or in school hours.[*]The material was posted using school equipment
    Ta!

  6. #36

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    Re: Malicious Websites

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff
    Now, as I keep saying. Given said 'evidence' you simply cannot punish students in school for what they did out of school. That's completely inappropriate. It's up to the judge/magistrate/parent to sort out. Not the school.
    That's the thing - using restrictions on the internet will turn up more information as kids tell on each other when pushed into a place they don't like. The school has a duty to do everything it can to protect its employees from abuse both inside and outside school if it is due to their job that they are receiving the abuse (which, in 99.99% of cases it will be).

    The restrictions wouldn't be a case of 'punishment' but a case of coercing the kids to report the culprit.

  7. #37

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    Re: Malicious Websites

    So can you elaborate on this remark?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff
    The school has to prove that either:
    [list][*]The incident described or depicted occurred on school grounds[*]or in school hours.[*]The material was posted using school equipment
    Ta!
    As, hopefully, you've noticed. I'm trying to explain that it is question of jurisdiction. The school has no power to dictate what a student can say/write/publish/blog when not attending school or off school premises. If the student says something that offends the school or its staff out of hours at home the existing civil and criminal legal systems offer a adequate opportunity for restitution. However, in most cases, nothing so extreme is required. Simply communicating concerns to the parents and having them deal with it is sufficient. Any attempt by the school to punish the student in school for something said out of school is a violation of their 'freedom of expression'.

    The restrictions wouldn't be a case of 'punishment' but a case of coercing the kids to report the culprit.
    Otherwise known as blackmail, and that's Article 6 out the window with it (going for the full set perhaps?). Sorry, you lose.

  8. #38

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    Re: Malicious Websites

    Nope, it wouldn't be blackmail, as I have said that there are no rights being broken by using the schools tools to get information. Just privileges. It is not a right to have access to unrestricted internet in school and as such the school can decide that due to unscrupulous behaviour, it can be more unscrupulous itself. It just wouldn't violate any human rights...

  9. #39

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    Re: Malicious Websites

    Except your doing it with 'intent' to extract information. That changes the game completely. Your into criminal charges (rather than civil) being placed against the school.

  10. #40
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    Re: Malicious Websites

    The school, within the guidelines published by the government of the day has the right to punish students who contravene any rules the school imposes.

    In our case, one rule is that no individual is to use any form of communication, including the internet, to slander or abuse any other individual connected to the school, including the school itself.

    This isn't intended to be 'Big Brother' but is a tool to educate and reduce incidents of bullying.

    It makes no difference, where the abuse is input or what equipment they use. The offence is against the school or individual within it.

    In the past we have, expelled students from school for a period for breaking the school rules. Before you ask - yes - parents are consulted and informed throughout the process.

    I agree that a student (or member of staff for that matter) using the internet to make abusive or otherwise offensive comments to any other individual outside our own organisation, cannot be punished by the school. However, there is nothing to stop the school educating the individual on the proper use of the Internet and informing the parents what is happening. We are in the education business afterall!

  11. #41

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    Re: Malicious Websites

    I agree with alan-d. Pupils should be suspended for making any attacks against the school or other pupils, no matter when or where it occurs. There are proper complaints channels if they are not happy about something.

    The thing is, if they get away with doing it, how does that prepare them for adult life? It is likely that doing the same thing as an adult will lose them their place at university or their job, and may result in them losing thousands of pounds in a civil lawsuit. It is better to learn about the consequences whilst they are still a child.

    However, that doesn't solve the OP problem, because they don't know who the account belongs to (or rather, they might have a very good idea who, but don't have any proof).

  12. #42

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    Re: Malicious Websites

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff
    Except your doing it with 'intent' to extract information. That changes the game completely. Your into criminal charges (rather than civil) being placed against the school.
    But there are no laws being broken. You are using the human rights thing too widely. As I have said, internet access is simply there for education. Using it for other things is a privilege and as such the school can hallow this or disallow it for whatever reason they want. There wouldn't be any rights issues at all.

  13. #43

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    Re: Malicious Websites

    try contacting the owner of the site or the webmaster and report the problem they should get back to you remember some sites don't have control over content or pictures

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    Re: Malicious Websites

    If u ask me i think u r goin the wrong way about say it was u in the school and u got the internet taken way limiting your education u wouldn't be happy at all. exspecially if u had nothing to do with it and knew nothing about it

  15. #45

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    Re: Malicious Websites

    > u got the internet taken way limiting your education

    I got 9 GCSE, 5 Highers and a diploma without any internet what-so-ever. When the internet was introduced, the other methods of learning and research did not simply vanish; they are still available. So I disagree that it limits your education - in fact with regards to copy/pasting and trying to filter inaccurate information, it damages your education! The only thing you couldn't ban is use of computers for actual ICT classes.

    > u wouldn't be happy at all. exspecially if u had nothing to do with it
    > and knew nothing about it

    Draw an analogy - if one unknown student vandalised something in the sports hall, common room, library, etc, it would not be unreasonable to ban everyone from using those areas for a fixed time as a penalty, or until the culprit came forward; peer pressure is a wonderful thing sometimes. If an unknown pupil attacked the school or staff using the internet, why would banning the use of school computers (for everything other than ICT lessons) be any different?

    I think 'human rights' in the West are a ridiculous notion anyway, due to the litigation culture in America. People with real human rights issues are being incarcerated without trial, have their possessions and homes taken from them, and are beaten, raped, tortured and killed.

    Yet we hear stupid things like 'it's my right to have a phone even though I make crank calls on it'; 'it's my right to smoke where I want even though it disturbs everyone else in the restaurant.'; or 'it's my right to play loud music in my own house, even if it wakes the neighbours.' These are not human rights; they are just the whinging of a selfish, irresponsible culture.

    The right to 'free speech' is supposed to be there for people who might otherwise be shot for being critical of their government, not for some spoilt brat who decides to publicly call his teacher names because he knows no-one will do anything about it. This is a disgusting, warped view of legislation that is meant to protect lives and fair leadership.

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