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School ICT Policies Thread, MP3's - the legalities in School Administration; Originally Posted by petectid Originally Posted by GrumbleDook Correct. We tell teachers to work from original CDs rather than MP3 ...
  1. #46

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Quote Originally Posted by petectid
    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    Correct. We tell teachers to work from original CDs rather than MP3 if they are doing work with classes.
    I know that here we pay a fee for showing DVDs, all titles of which are added to a form and sent with a payment, where I do not know as the finance manager deals with this. We can then display all the DVDs on the list in school. Would the same not apply to Audio CD Roms used by schools?
    Unfortunately not. The PVSL scheme (previously mentioned on the site) is an agreement reached on behalf on establishments with distribution houses purely for showing of DVDs / Video Cassettes. There is no similar agreement in place with Music Companies at this time. The closest you get is from things like Audio Networks, which many RBCs sign up to on behalf of their connected schools.

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones
    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    Ensure that these files in kept in very specific locations within home areas, or better still put them on a server that will stream them to students (actually using iTunes is possible for this!)
    If we said "we will delete all MP3 files except those in a folder called 'I Need These MP3s', they would simply put all their MP3s - legal and otherwise - in that folder. Our users aren't stupid!
    Look at the folder size of these folders ... I think DIRSTAT is the command for it but some of the others will correct my poor technical knowledge no doubt.

    If they are kicking the 4rse out of it then give them a polite warning ... and the second time just delete (you have a backup anyway!)

    Also ... get confirmation from teachers which students need to have music in their home area. If their name is not down ... wel ... the music, it go bye-bye!

  3. #48
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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    If we said "we will delete all MP3 files except those in a folder called 'I Need These MP3s', they would simply put all their MP3s - legal and otherwise - in that folder. Our users aren't stupid!

    Exactly

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Quote Originally Posted by contink
    Quote Originally Posted by wil0
    im just saying worring about the legalities of mp3s on your servers is pointless, and exactly because the copyright laws are a farce, no one will arrest you,
    All well and good but your impression of an ostrich doesn't relate to the real world.

    Remember what happened when millions of college students adopted that attitude in the US and a small selection were visited by officials who promptly made their student loans the least of their problems. You can bet they figured the old "it'll never happen to me" thing applied.. it didn't.

    Granted the system needs an overhaul but we live in the here and now and the ostrich approach has no bearing. Playing russian roulette with your job, your schools reputation and the law is just plain dumb..
    Most american colleges are actually not passing on letters from the riaa or private firms claiming copyright infringement anymore, exactly because of this. More to the point like i said, your only going to get legal action brought against you if you are running insecure P2P programs (which if they can your not doing your job very well) and are sharing and uploading the music. Search for riaa on digg.com its got all the latest storys on this.
    The music being present on your servers provides no real legal threat, its "illigal" but like everyone says the copyright laws are outdated and even the legal system knows this. I would be suprised if they could even bring a charge against you, that would stand up in court.

    Again tell kids to put their mp3s in the my music folder, limit the folder size and everything will be fine. You will never stop kids from downloading and listeing to music on your network. Kids will get bored of only being able to keep 10mb of mp3s, and will just put them on their mp3 players or memory sticks.
    Doing alevel music, music tech, media and other sibject involves you either using sources as mp3 files, or saving your work as mp3 files. Kids will also be saving alot of music work as mp3 files from programs such as cubase, dance ejay, fruity loops, and even sibelius.
    By blanket deleting you will be deleting peoples work, and sometimes vital files in peoples work.

    I dont think im being unreasonable, im being realistic, and sugesting a compromise solution. As a former student i know how sometimes its important you can use mp3s. blanket deleting is not a solution, its counter productive, people will complain.

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    The music being present on your servers provides no real legal threat, its "illigal" but like everyone says the copyright laws are outdated and even the legal system knows this. I would be suprised if they could even bring a charge against you, that would stand up in court.
    Facilitating copyright infringement is a Criminal offense in the EU now due to the IPRED2 directive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Article 3. Page 9 of the directive
    Article 3 Offences

    Member States shall ensure that all intentional infringements of an intellectual property right on a commercial scale, and attempting, aiding or abetting and inciting such infringements, are treated as criminal offences.
    http://fsfeurope.org/projects/ipred2/

  6. #51

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    [quote="Geoff"]
    Quote Originally Posted by Article 3. Page 9 of the directive
    Article 3 Offences

    Member States shall ensure that all intentional infringements of an intellectual property right on a commercial scale, and attempting, aiding or abetting and inciting such infringements, are treated as criminal offences.
    My bold. So that's that, not a CRIMINAL issue at all. Civil it stays, as ever. (In this case! IANAL etc)

  7. #52

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    What constitutes a 'commercial scale' is undefined in the directive. So no, no get out of jail free card there.

  8. #53

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    In this instance, commercial = for profit?

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    I guess we'll find out in court. :P Hopefully the UK amendment to the copyright act that implements this directive will clarify the situation. I suggest you write to your MP.

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Leaving the legal debate where it is for a moment, let me ask this. Even after you've convinced yourself that deleting all MP3s is the correct thing to do, and all your teaching staff are happy with the impact which this will have on their teaching, how do you actually enforce this?

    It will take your students a matter of days to realise that renaming their MP3 files to .doc when they don't need them will make them invisible to your scans.

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Or just restoring them from Shadow Copies.

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    If they want to play hardball, so can I, I'd resort to using Linux. Something along the lines of:

    Code:
    find /mnt/ZETHUS/home -name * -print | xargs file | grep MPEG.*layer.III | cut -d: -s -f1 | rm -rf
    Running this overnight is probably a good plan. As is replacing the 'rm -rf' with a redirect to a text file for doing a dry run.

  13. #58

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones
    Leaving the legal debate where it is for a moment, let me ask this. Even after you've convinced yourself that deleting all MP3s is the correct thing to do, and all your teaching staff are happy with the impact which this will have on their teaching, how do you actually enforce this?

    It will take your students a matter of days to realise that renaming their MP3 files to .doc when they don't need them will make them invisible to your scans.
    Actions to take -

    1 : Scan by folder size. Any students with folders over a certain size get flagged to be looked at.

    2 : Average size of files in folders (I am sure it was MR Rochford that talked about a script for this a few years ago on a certain newsgroup, but can't find a link) and anything where all the files average around 4MB is likely to be an album.

    3 : Remove CD drives from computers. If they cannot rip CDs easily it helps to stop them bringing them in.

    4 : File control using Server 2003 R2. Ban MP3s. Even if they change them back you lock them out so they can't be used ... there are commercial applications that will do this is a nastier way.

    5 : Classroom Management. If they have headphones on in a classroom but no MP3 player in their pocket, and they are listening to music ... they are either nabbing all the bandwidth listening to an online radio station (block it asap) or they are listening to music held on their home area.

    6 : Make examples of students. Embarrass them in assemblies ... "And we would like to thank the student in Year 10 who put their whole collection of the Bee Gees on the file server. It was very kind of them but we have had to delete it in compliance with the latest EU laws about music taste. following from that I want to see Peter Person after assembly ... we also draw the line a Rod Stewart!"

    I do think that number 5 is the most important ... technology is not always the answer ... gottingothers to do the legwork is often best!

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    In this instance, commercial = for profit?
    Commercial = used for gain without recompense to the rights holders.

    The gain in the case of schools is argued as the savings of monies (you should buy the number of copies of the CD you want to use) or the effect it has on the students with regards to attainment, achievement or engagement (from a friend at the performing rights society).

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    1 : Scan by folder size. Any students with folders over a certain size get flagged to be looked at.
    You have more time on your hands than I do, obviously. I check people's areas when they ask for more space, but that's about it. We do occasionally spot-check the home areas or scan and see which ones are huge, but very rarely to be honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    3 : Remove CD drives from computers. If they cannot rip CDs easily it helps to stop them bringing them in.
    Done that, but more for cost / need reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    5 : Classroom Management. If they have headphones on in a classroom...
    Yeah, we often do that although some teachers let students to listen to Internet radio while working.

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