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School ICT Policies Thread, MP3's - the legalities in School Administration; So to clear something up for me, if the pupil owns the cd, rips a track or tracks to mp3 ...
  1. #16
    Kyle's Avatar
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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    So to clear something up for me, if the pupil owns the cd, rips a track or tracks to mp3 and brings them in on USB pen to then save to the network for using in presentations is this illegal.

    On what AUP or ICT policy can this be enforced. I don't liek the use of mp3 in anyones directory but i would love to know how others completely ban them.

  2. #17

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    I have just done a check again on my server and since I removed them all last time (about 3 weeks ago) there are once again a couple of hundred - all of which I have deleted and staff re-reminded about copyright law.

    It is bizarre how people would think copying a cd or dvd and giving their friend it is illegal but ripping it onto a computer and broadcasting it to a classroom full of kids isn't?

    I shall be checking on an even more regular basis from now on, every week - and culprits will be chatted to by myself about it.

  3. #18

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    The converting of CDs to digital files that can be moved around and burnt onto new CDs for personal use is likely to be looked at and the BPI have admitted that they are happy with Fair Use and keen to see a copyrigt change.

    If a member of staff we tend to tell them to have it on their local machine and not the server.

    On the server they cannot store MP3s unless they have created them ... if we find any MP3s or WMA files that are not created by students or royalty free then they get deleted.

  4. #19

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    The converting of CDs to digital files that can be moved around and burnt onto new CDs for personal use is likely to be looked at and the BPI have admitted that they are happy with Fair Use and keen to see a copyrigt change.
    Indeed, I think pretty much everyone is pushing for new copyright legislation at the moment. But as it stands we are still bound by the law and not by the individual support of a industry group. As copyright infringement is a criminal offence, it wouldn't need a copyright holder to prosecute - just the police and CPS.

  5. #20

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Correct. We tell teachers to work from original CDs rather than MP3 if they are doing work with classes.

  6. #21
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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    I could still do with something in black and white that i could tell our SLT to look at. I don't want to be a kill joy for some impressive presentations i have seen yr 11 put together but if ever we were found to have illegal mp3's on our network then I know who would be in the firing line first...........!

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Quote Originally Posted by tosca925
    I could still do with something in black and white that i could tell our SLT to look at. I don't want to be a kill joy for some impressive presentations i have seen yr 11 put together but if ever we were found to have illegal mp3's on our network then I know who would be in the firing line first...........!
    Absolutey. We are directly responsible for the data stored on our managed servers.

    This is one area that personally owned USB pen drives may save the day.

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    what im saying is that, yes kids shouldent download mp3s at school, but as far as mp3s are concerned, it may be illigal, but no one will ever catch you. Its like recording off the radio to tape, who ever got arrested for that? The only way you will ever get caught is if you run unsecure p2p programs, (with out a blocklist atleast) which no one should beable to on your network anyway.

    If kids have mp3s on our servers, then they should be deleted. but i cant help but think that there may be some educational value in some of the mp3s and that they are using them for presentations, music, music tech, and other subjects.

    If kids here actually downloaded alot of mp3s i would be bothered and id impliment a fair solution, but i wouldent be worried about getting sued/imprisoned, just because, that will never happen.

  9. #24

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Quote Originally Posted by wil0
    what im saying is that, yes kids shouldent download mp3s at school, but as far as mp3s are concerned, it may be illigal, but no one will ever catch you. .
    I'm sorry but i just can't imagine myself writing that in my AUP to be approved by the Governors and Head. And i certainly wouldn't employ any technical staff that had that attitude.

  10. #25
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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Let's also bear in mind the ownership question. Jump forward in time a few years to the point where the outdated copyright laws have been revised to take MP3s into account. It is the teacher who owns the CD and therefore the rights to use the MP3, however it is the school which is hosting the MP3 and the school does not own the track so has no legal rights to the MP3.

    Here's a curly one to throw in to the debate. Our A-Level Music students are required to rip entire tracks and extracts of tracks from CDs to accompany their dissertations - they must compare two recordings of the same piece of music, and the exam boards request the recordings on CD. I am assured by the Head of Music that this is done under a strict and very specific re-negotiation of the copyright laws by the exam boards so I am happy with this on the face of it, but it does mean that I can't run blanket sweeps across the network removing all MP3 files!

  11. #26

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Quote Originally Posted by steele_uk
    Quote Originally Posted by wil0
    what im saying is that, yes kids shouldent download mp3s at school, but as far as mp3s are concerned, it may be illigal, but no one will ever catch you. .
    I'm sorry but i just can't imagine myself writing that in my AUP to be approved by the Governors and Head. And i certainly wouldn't employ any technical staff that had that attitude.
    TBH i think your attitude of blanket block and delete is obsered, and I wouldent consider employing some one with as little initiative as yourself.
    Im not saying write "we wont get caught LOL the govenment are toolzzz, lets all download mp3s"
    im just saying worring about the legalities of mp3s on your servers is pointless, and exactly because the copyright laws are a farce, no one will arrest you, kids learn through music, and some will be downloading speeches, samples and other things for educational purposes.
    You should maybe focus your attention on deleting illigitamate mp3s and letting kids keep others for educational purposes, or say keep your mp3s in your my music folder, but limit that to 10mb. Its inevitable that kids will try and listen to mp3s or music on your network, set a blanket policy to delete all mp3files excluding the ones in my music, then limit that folder to 10mb.

    Quite frankly I dont see downloading mp3s as stealing, just because only the big bands lose out, the ones who already have loads of money, sometimes dont even deserve the sale, most normal bands dont even make money from cds. these are proven facts. your average major band makes about 50p - £1 from a cd sale.

    Smaller bands on indie labels make much more on a cd sale, and they dont get hurt by p2p because... Smaller bands stuff generally doesent get ripped. for example, i wanted to download a cd by a band called "mouthwash", however i could only get their 2001 album (after much searching), which isnt very good, and not their new release, so i went out and bought it.

    Bands make money through merchandise, airplay and touring.

  12. #27

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    [quote="wil0"]
    Quote Originally Posted by steele_uk
    TBH i think your attitude of blanket block and delete is obsered, and I wouldent consider employing some one with as little initiative as yourself.
    Im not saying write "we wont get caught LOL the govenment are toolzzz, lets all download mp3s"
    im just saying worring about the legalities of mp3s on your servers is pointless, and exactly because the copyright laws are a farce, no one will arrest you, kids learn through music, and some will be downloading speeches, samples and other things for educational purposes.
    You should maybe focus your attention on deleting illigitamate mp3s and letting kids keep others for educational purposes, or say keep your mp3s in your my music folder, but limit that to 10mb. Its inevitable that kids will try and listen to mp3s or music on your network, set a blanket policy to delete all mp3files excluding the ones in my music, then limit that folder to 10mb.
    How do your discern between legit and non-legit files? Listen to them all? Ask every person who has a file if it is legally allowed to be on the school's system? The situation is this - we have a lot of much more important things to do with our time than chase up licenses for using mp3 files. Taking a relaxed attitude to it would lead to the school breaking the law - which is unacceptable.

    Quite frankly I dont see downloading mp3s as stealing, just because only the big bands lose out, the ones who already have loads of money, sometimes dont even deserve the sale, most normal bands dont even make money from cds. these are proven facts. your average major band makes about 50p - £1 from a cd sale.
    It is not up to you to decide this - this is a legal requirement and we can moralise over it for as long as we want. We still have a legal requirement to deal with.

  13. #28
    contink's Avatar
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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Quote Originally Posted by wil0
    im just saying worring about the legalities of mp3s on your servers is pointless, and exactly because the copyright laws are a farce, no one will arrest you,
    All well and good but your impression of an ostrich doesn't relate to the real world.

    Remember what happened when millions of college students adopted that attitude in the US and a small selection were visited by officials who promptly made their student loans the least of their problems. You can bet they figured the old "it'll never happen to me" thing applied.. it didn't.

    Granted the system needs an overhaul but we live in the here and now and the ostrich approach has no bearing. Playing russian roulette with your job, your schools reputation and the law is just plain dumb..

  14. #29

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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk
    It is not up to you to decide this - this is a legal requirement and we can moralise over it for as long as we want. We still have a legal requirement to deal with.
    Thank you. That is what i should have replied with a while back.

    We all have opinions as to what laws we thinks are good/bad whatever. I am after clarification of what the law is, not whether it is a good or bad.

  15. #30
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    Re: MP3's - the legalities

    How do your discern between legit and non-legit files? Listen to them all? Ask every person who has a file if it is legally allowed to be on the school's system? The situation is this - we have a lot of much more important things to do with our time than chase up licenses for using mp3 files. Taking a relaxed attitude to it would lead to the school breaking the law - which is unacceptable.
    Absolutely spot on, I ain't got time to check all the mp3's i find. I could employ a part time tech to do that and that certainly ain't gonna happen. If i did search through just one year group i would guarantee that over 98% of the mp3's would be illegal.

    I know what i'd like to do to cover my back and thats doa complete blamnket delete but i need documantation to present to SLT before i can get approval.

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