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Physical Security Thread, Door Access Control Systems in Technical; Originally Posted by dhicks Yes, you can - I was at the London Hackspace the other day, and that's exactly ...
  1. #61

    plexer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhicks View Post
    Yes, you can - I was at the London Hackspace the other day, and that's exactly what they've done for their access control system.
    Are you replying to your own question?

    But yes as the oyster cards are a mifare classic chip you can use them.

    Ben

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    dhicks (18th November 2011)

  3. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by plexer View Post
    Are you replying to your own question?
    Yes - I was just impressed by seeing the exact system I had in mind actually working. Handily, I'm sure I can probably find someone at the Hackspace to explain how it works, too - I could install one on the flat's front door so I can just use my Oyster card instead of having to find my keys when I get home...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevenw View Post
    We also are looking at having a Paxton system installed.

    We are also having new photocopier's installed and we are going to use contact-less cards.

    We would like to use the Cards for both systems copiers and doors but i am unsure if this is possible.

    Any info would be great.
    Depends on what system but yes shouldnt be a problem.
    Print/copy software and the paxton door entry software know nothing about each other and will never meet. Both systems store the card number in their own way. Depending on card and readers used both systems may also read different numbers, again this isnt an issue as the two systems just dont care about each other

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    plexer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhicks View Post
    Yes - I was just impressed by seeing the exact system I had in mind actually working. Handily, I'm sure I can probably find someone at the Hackspace to explain how it works, too - I could install one on the flat's front door so I can just use my Oyster card instead of having to find my keys when I get home...
    Fair enough, it's probably just reading the serial number off the mifare classic chip rather than any specific oyster card stuff.

    Ben

  6. #65

    plexer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevenw View Post
    We also are looking at having a Paxton system installed.

    We are also having new photocopier's installed and we are going to use contact-less cards.

    We would like to use the Cards for both systems copiers and doors but i am unsure if this is possible.

    Any info would be great.
    As long as both systems are using the same technology for their cards i.e mifare then you can use 1 card for both.

    Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by plexer View Post
    As long as both systems are using the same technology for their cards i.e mifare then you can use 1 card for both.

    Ben
    If you were unlucky to find that the card was using some closed technology or you perhaps you cant get a card reader for that card technology working on a copier then you can always use small mifare stickers on the cards as another option.

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    Also how do you go about programming the cards?

    Am i right in saying the card only stores a unique string or characters? The reader then looks up that unique string on a database and then takes action based on the database results.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevenw View Post
    Also how do you go about programming the cards?

    Am i right in saying the card only stores a unique string or characters? The reader then looks up that unique string on a database and then takes action based on the database results.
    Yup, that's the case. Every card has a unique number, which is used as the reference.

    Paxton cards are programmed with a second number on top of the normal Hitag2 number, but it is still a unique number.

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    Would the cards come with the pre-programed number or is that something that can be added\modified?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevenw View Post
    Would the cards come with the pre-programed number or is that something that can be added\modified?
    They are pre-programmed, which is why you have to buy Paxton specific cards rather than plain Hitag2 cards.

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    Well this is a handy thread as I need to do exactly the same thing!

    We've got Paxton at the moment, staff cards printed and details set up in the database but no door readers as yet.
    We also have Konica Minolta copiers, currently using bio authentication (not fingerprint) but want to replace with cards as it's not 100% reliable when hands are cold etc

    I know Paxton cards are proprietary so looks like HID is the way to go, this for the copier...
    Konica Minolta Proximity Card Authentication. AU-201H Security Device
    Konica Minolta Proximity Card Authentication. AU-202H Security Device

    And then HID readers for the door controllers
    Access Control UK - Net2 range - Proximity HID™ readers

    As mentioned above the two systems don't integrate but provided that they're reading the same frequency cards and same bit depth it should just be a matter of associating the token with each system and away we go?

    Only other qu I've got is how many people are running the Paxton management software on a virtual server? I've got it up there at the moment but apparently it's not fully supported due to the packet forwarding going on at hypervisor level... can't see why it shouldn't work but would feel more warm fuzzies if I hear of it working successfully elsewhere
    Last edited by gshaw; 10th January 2012 at 05:07 PM.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gshaw View Post
    Well this is a handy thread as I need to do exactly the same thing!

    We've got Paxton at the moment, staff cards printed and details set up in the database but no door readers as yet.
    We also have Konica Minolta copiers, currently using bio authentication (not fingerprint) but want to replace with cards as it's not 100% reliable when hands are cold etc

    I know Paxton cards are proprietary so looks like HID is the way to go, this for the copier...
    Konica Minolta Proximity Card Authentication. AU-201H Security Device
    Konica Minolta Proximity Card Authentication. AU-202H Security Device

    And then HID readers for the door controllers
    Access Control UK - Net2 range - Proximity HID™ readers

    As mentioned above the two systems don't integrate but provided that they're reading the same frequency cards and same bit depth it should just be a matter of associating the token with each system and away we go?

    Only other qu I've got is how many people are running the Paxton management software on a virtual server? I've got it up there at the moment but apparently it's not fully supported due to the packet forwarding going on at hypervisor level... can't see why it shouldn't work but would feel more warm fuzzies if I hear of it working successfully elsewhere
    My original school has had Net2 running in a Windows XP virtual machine for about 4 years now. Never had any issues with it.

  14. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by plexer View Post
    But yes as the oyster cards are a mifare classic chip you can use them.
    Ah - turns out Oyster now uses MIFARE DESFire cards rather than MIFARE Classic cards:

    Oyster card - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The cheap card reader I've just bought off eBay doesn't read them at all:

    HF RFID Mifare Card Writer/Reader USB 13.56M HZ 14443A | eBay

    It could be that the card isn't compatible, or simply that I have a a non-working card reader. It's supposed to be a lovely simple device that acts as a USB keyboard, so no driver or anything to install, you just plug in to a USB port and run an application to read 10-digit serial numbers from the console.

    Does anyone know of a reliable source of Oyster-compatible, USB keyboard compatible readers?

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    If you have access to a Samsung S2/S3 try and see if you can link to the NFC chip on those - would be cool to program door entry to allow access while using the phone as a swipe card!

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    dhicks (20th June 2012)

  17. #75

    dhicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    If you have access to a Samsung S2/S3 try and see if you can link to the NFC chip on those - would be cool to program door entry to allow access while using the phone as a swipe card!
    Good point. According to that Wikipedia page, "basic information about the MIFARE Classic or MIFARE DESFire chip can be read by any ISO/IEC 14443 type A compatible reader", so I'm assuming all I need to do is find a reliable 14443 type A reader (the one from eBay says that's what it is, but I can't get it to work) and I can read a variety of cards - the RFID chips embedded into phones, or those new payment tags or contactess debit cards you see advertised, maybe (just to emphasise to anyone reading this that "basic information" is simply a 10-digit serial number, nothing to do with any Oyster/bank/phone details on the card).

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